Description
As Veterans, we all have the capability of leading with a purpose. However, there are additional coaching tools that will navigate you through life’s challenges. Joining us in this episode is Jamie Peer, a retired Lieutenant Colonel turned life mastery coach. Jamie expertly applies her military HR experiences to civilian life coaching, highlighting the critical nature of structure, support, and accountability.
Discover how military values seamlessly transition into effective coaching strategies for setting goals, managing work-life balance, and overcoming limiting beliefs. Throughout this episode, there are actionable insights on effective leadership, prioritizing relationships, and maintaining mental health, including an in-depth discussion on moral injury; what it means and the effect it can have. Don’t miss this discussion on how military discipline can elevate your personal and professional growth.
Transform your life and business with Jamie. To learn more, visit https://www.jamiepeer.com/ or email her directly at jamie@jamiepeer.com.
Transcript
Jamie Peer: Most people know what they need to do, it’s just the structure and accountability and support and encouragement to do it. And we can all set big goals and one thing can derail it. And the next thing you know, two years have gone by and you’re like, what was that thing? I said, oh, shoot, it’s been two years since I thought about that. But what do you have a coach there showing up for you every week and saying, okay, I know that this really hard thing happened this week, but okay, next week let’s get back to what you want to stay focused on.
John Berry: Welcome to the Veteran Led podcast, where we talk with leaders who use their military experiences to develop great organizations and continue to serve their communities. Today’s guest is Lieutenant Colonel (Retired) and life mastery coach, Jamie Peer. Welcome to the program, Jamie.
Jamie Peer: Thanks, John. I appreciate the opportunity.
John Berry: Now, in looking through your bio, you have a ton of experience in human resources throughout your military career. And then you parlay that into a life coaching profession. And I want to go back to the military skills that you learned in HR. A lot of us either love or hate at the G1, right? Either our records were squared away, we were taking care of, or we had to go back and fix something. So, what did you learn in your years as human resources that has helped you to develop a successful civilian business?
Jamie Peer: Sure. So, lots of different things. Um, in my experience as a (G1) (S1) human resources professional, one of the things that I really, really appreciated was the opportunity to get the insight of the commander and what their priorities were for their people. And so, you know, a lot of people think it’s just, you know, paper pusher and making sure that awards are squared away and evaluations are squared away, and that is part of it. But it’s also having those one on one conversations with the commander and learning about what qualities and attributes are you looking for? I would pay attention to those things so that when we were sitting in meetings and they were trying to decide on a personnel decision, I could say things like, hey, sir, um, I remember you said this was important to you. You know, I’ve been observing over the last six months. Here are some of the things I noticed because nobody can be everywhere at the same time. But I felt like my insight and my intuition was appreciated. And, uh, and I also just appreciated all the things that a commander has on their plate in a day. And that while I may think my thing is the most important thing I’ve, you know, they’ve got to take in the totality of all the responsibilities of running a unit and getting a unit deployed.
Jamie Peer: Um, so other than that, you know, excellent customer service. I mean, talk about world class, you know, customers, but also some extremely tired, stressed out, you know, life and death situations that these people face. And they’re coming to me to help them out with something that affects their pay, affects their livelihood, affects their families. And just being able to really learn compassion and empathy and help them, you know, sometimes they would come and they would be so upset. But I would just try to put myself in their shoes and, and let them know that I could hear the situation. I acknowledge and validated that it must be hard. And I could see them calming down, and then we could work through it together. And, you know, a lot of times people say that that role is a thankless job. I received so much thanks and gratitude throughout my years, and I really think that’s what kept me going in such a, you know, not cool necessarily position. Yeah.
John Berry: No one is coming to the G1 as a good news story, right? It’s not like, oh, I’m coming to the G1 because I’m going to get promoted. No, you’re coming to G1 because your paperwork got screwed up and you didn’t get promoted, or you’re going to the G1 because there’s pay issues or there’s some other administrative issue. And yeah, from the commander’s perspective, this is just an administrative issue. But you’re right. At the soldier level, that soldier wants to know how they’re going to eat, how they’re going to take care of their family. And when the pay is screwed up, it’s a huge deal in terms of a soldier’s ability to perform because their head is somewhere else. So, I think we sometimes we fail to look at the value that the G1 brings. And especially as a commander, when you’ve got the you got six other staff officers or more that you have to worry about, and then all the commanders and all this information is coming in. A lot of times we’re just moving at the speed of light and knowing that we’re going to spend maybe 3% of our time with the HR team, with the S1 or the G1, and then they’re going to spend 90% of the time coming up with the solution. They’re going to back brief us, and then maybe we’ll spend 7% of our time helping them develop that solution. And as a commander, we just can’t be everywhere. So, we need competent HR professionals. Now, that being said, as the commander, when we look at culture, right, we think that the commander drives culture. But it seems that HR is in the back of their head reminding them of culture. And so tell me what role, especially in the military, does HR play in culture?
Jamie Peer: Yes. So again, one of the things I think, uh, HR professionals bring to the team, if they’re if they’re tuned in, right, there’s, there’s great people in all fields and then there’s some less than great, um, but keeping a pulse on how people are doing, you know, paying attention to the op tempo and just checking in with people because you I could see it on people, whether they were excited about training or whether they were spent and then hearing, you know, oftentimes I had a revolving door in my office of people coming in and they would just be really, really honest. They’re not going to tell the boss, you know, my wife is fed up with this op tempo, she’s getting ready to leave me. And I don’t have to go straight to the commander with specifics, but I can say, hey, sir, um, just catching some rumblings that people are getting pretty worn out and families are getting really worn out. So, if it’s between, you know, this, this training for this long or this training for this long, like, let’s just make sure that we’re keeping the families in in mind, because there’s a lot of training that goes on before the soldier even leaves country. And that connection with their family is what sustains them. And if they don’t have that, you know, it’s kind of like, what are you fighting for? So, um, so, yeah, just keeping an eye on that for the commander and making sure to be willing to have those candid conversations. Um, I took that pretty seriously.
John Berry: Well, let me ask you this on, especially on the military side, because in the military side, I really liked having the staff. So, for instance, if a soldier came to me and said, sir, I got to talk to you, and if it wasn’t one of, you know, someone directly in my who I directly supervised, it was always like, okay, I’m happy to talk to you, but if this is in any way a legal issue, you’re probably better off talking to JAG. If this is a spiritual issue, you’re probably better off talking to the chaplain because I’m a mandatory reporter, right? If you tell me something, things are going to move forward and probably end up on your desk, the G-1, JAG, whatever. So, I can’t have those candid conversations with everyone, and those have to go through different channels. And you’re right, if I would listen to all the chatter from all the unhappy soldiers, well, that might be all I was going to do all day, because we know that the way soldiers communicate sometimes is complaining, and our best soldiers complain because they want excellence. And then our worst soldiers complain because they don’t want excellence, and you’re never going to keep everybody happy. And so having HR to keep us abreast of what’s going on, those Command Climate Surveys and things we can do to understand our culture is huge. But let me take it now to the private sector and the private sector. You know, I noticed that if I had an open door policy as the boss, as the CEO, as the owner, that people would come in and complain to me.
John Berry: And I said, well, no, no, no, this has to go to human resources. I just can’t listen to everybody all day long. This open door policy is eating my time, and I’m failing the team by not being more specific about how I’m going to spend my time with the team. And I kind of let I was reactive instead of proactive. And so what I would do is say, okay, you know, go to HR. And then it turned out that people kept going to HR. Then HR wasn’t getting anything done, and I realized that I had to have that conversation with the team that HR is a human resources manager. They’re managing our end strength. They are managing our greatest asset. So if you’re just going in there to complain and you don’t have solutions, I’m not really sure that HR is a solution for you either. So how do you address that? Where you you have individuals within the organization who like to complain and the commander doesn’t want to deal with them, or the boss doesn’t want to deal him. So, they sent him to HR. How do you manage your schedule? Because we know you do a lot of important things, whether there’s chaptering people out or promoting people or taking care of payment. How do you set your priorities when the commander is sending people to your door?
Jamie Peer: Sure. So, you know, fortunately in the military, there’s a chain of command and that is, you know, by default where we can always direct people like, have you talk to your first line leader. Um, how did that go? Have you talked to your, you know, platoon sergeant, platoon leader? Um, and so by default, if it was just some random person, more often it was other members of the staff that just needed to have a safe space to vent or my own soldiers, you know, like my senior NCO and things like that. But what I did find is if I ever really, truly couldn’t spend that time with them, I would just make an appointment, say, hey, I hear what you’re saying. It sounds like a lot sounds tough. Um, let me get you on my calendar for later this afternoon. And that way I can focus on what we’re talking about. And for now, I got to get this report done and that, you know, that just bought me some time. It gave them some time to cool off, too, because sometimes once our amygdala gets hijacked, we just we’re in that reaction mode. But give it give it lunch and a couple hours to breathe. And all of a sudden things are back into perspective. And I would go back out and say, hey, you still want to chat? And you’re like, ah, I figured it out, ma’am. I’m good. Thanks. And then, yeah, there’s.
John Berry: I think there’s this misconception that people need to vent. And the first time I heard that, that isn’t necessary is a book called A Woman Named Cy Wakeman wrote called “No Ego” and she’s actually from Nebraska, an HR professional, and she’s talking about no, people don’t need to vent. In fact, the venting just makes it worse, right? Their amygdala gets activated, and they just keep going. And they spin in a cycle. So, if they keep venting it’s not actually solving the problem. So do you maintain the same belief?
Jamie Peer: Yes. And it actually helps with coaching, because sometimes I get on a call with a client and something just happened, and they want to talk about it for 45 minutes and they’re reacting. And one of the things I do is say, you know, okay, that’s you know, that sounds like you’ve got a lot, a lot of challenges right now that are, you know, we can talk about that later. But right now, let’s take a deep breath and tell me something that you’re grateful for and something that you’re proud of. And the flip the switch flips. And first they got to stop because you can’t be on the negative complaining channel and the grateful channel at the same time. And it’s really cool to watch them switch, change the channel in their mind, and all of a sudden they’re like, oh my gosh, oh, this thing happened today. Or my kid did this this morning and it was so great. And within two minutes they go from hijacked amygdala and and ranting to the almost like emotional happy because they’re thinking about something else. And so that is one trick that I do to just help people get grounded and centered for the coaching calls that I do. Because, yeah, there’s there’s so much going on in the world and there’s so many things to get distracted by and upset about. But like, let’s focus on you and let’s get down to brass tacks and and gratitude is one of those ways that I help people do that.
John Berry: And I think that focus is so important in coaching. Years ago I had a business coach. It was the end of the year. It’s about four years ago. It’s the end of the year, and I’m working through all the year-end problems. And then one annoying problem comes up right before the meeting. But the coach wasn’t prepared, the coach wasn’t disciplined. And so we ended up solving a problem that wasn’t even in my top 20. And the thing is, that problem is still alive today. It was like, wait, we talked through it for 90 minutes because I was hot about it. I was, you know, I was mad. But then I realized, like, that’s not the alligator that’s closest to the boat. That alligator is not even in this swamp. And so, I was out there fighting this battle with him, uh, or with the, the coach trying to figure out how we’re going to do this. And I realized, like, it’s not even worth addressing this problem right now. It was just because it was top of mind. And my coach was not prepared to take me through the things that we needed to discuss. And so, I think that’s brilliant insight that a lot of times when people come to us as a leader, as a coach and they’re hot about something, if we can put a little space or time in between that, they can usually cool off and get perspective. Now that gives us a great segue into what you’re doing now as a Certified Life Mastery consultant or life coach. Tell the audience what that is.
Jamie Peer: Well, there are as many different kinds of life coaches as there are life coaches, right? That’s just as there are people. So, um, what I the training that I went through, um, focuses on four primary areas of your life, which is, uh, health and well-being. You know, what would you like your life to look like? And what’s the gap between where you’re at and where you want to be? Um, love and relationships. So, we have people that we care about. Um, but how are we making time and space and energy for them? Our career? How are we showing up in the world with our time and talent and is it fulfilling? Do I want to get out of bed, or do I not want to get out of bed in the morning to head to work? And then time and money freedom. And that is just do I have the ability to go, be, do, have and give what I would love with my time and financial resources? So, I don’t specialize in any specific one of those things. But what I do do is help people get clarity on current state, future state. Again, notice the gap and then let’s come up with action steps. You know which most people know what they need to do. It’s just the structure and accountability and support and encouragement to do it. And we can all set big goals and one thing can derail it. And then next thing you know, two years have gone by and you’re like, what was that thing? I said, oh, shoot, it’s been two years since I thought about that.
Jamie Peer: But what do you have a coach there showing up for you every week and saying, okay, I know that this really hard thing happened this week, but okay, next week let’s get back to what you want to stay focused on because life can take us all off track. So, I use the analogy of your vision is the point on the horizon, and your coach is the person you know, helping you steer the boat so you don’t get off track too far or end up spinning in circles in the middle of the ocean. They’re like, keep your eye on the horizon, you know, reset your course. Um, and let’s keep going. So, uh, I think why I, I gravitated towards life coaching goes back to my experience in the HR world with that revolving door. For whatever reason, people were coming to me sharing their hopes and dreams for their military careers or sharing me with some of the hardships that were going on in their family. Other health and, um, just through those interactions and, and helping them brainstorm things they could do or offering suggestions based on my own life experience as a wife and a mom of three girls in the military. Um, I’d, I’d, you know, a couple days later, they’d come back and they’re like, hey, I took your suggestion and I did that thing, and it all worked out.
Jamie Peer: I had a guy come in one time, day of his anniversary, no plans, nothing. He hadn’t even bought his wife a card. He’s like, Jamie, I think my wife’s going to divorce me. And I’m like, why? Because it’s our anniversary and I haven’t done anything. I’m like, no problem. Swing by the spa on this street. On the way home, get her a manicure pedicure facial, um, grab some chocolate covered strawberries from the grocery store and get her a card and you’ll be good. You came back the very next day, and he’s like, you saved my marriage. She was so impressed. So, you know, and I don’t give people I don’t tell people what to do. Like I said, most of us intuitively know because as soon as you give somebody advice, you’re like, I know, I know. Okay, well, if you know, then why aren’t you doing it? So, I just helped draw that out and again, you know, provide the structure and accountability. I come up with trackers similar to what you saw in the military charts that are red, green or amber. Okay, you set this goal. You either did it or you didn’t. So if you did it, it’s green. If you kind of did it, it’s yellow. And if you totally blew it off, it’s red. And I get a lot of, you know, military and veteran clients who their type A ness kicks in and they’re like, I’m going to make all those green this week. And I’m like, great, let’s go.
John Berry: Yeah, and I love accountability. And I want to make one other statement that when you talked about the anniversary, the one thing I found too is when you have systems that makes the accountability easier. And years ago, I bought my wife something for our anniversary at Tiffany in Kansas City. Right. And they knew it was for the anniversary. And then they would text me like two weeks before, hey, anniversary is coming up. And it was like, that was the easiest sale. I mean, I’ll pay whatever it takes to get not screw this up because, yeah, you’re right, it’s two weeks away. What do I do? And they’re like, well, yeah, I recommend these earrings, you know, and it’s the easiest check. I write because I don’t have to think about it. And they just saved me some pain. So yeah, I’m going to do it. So, I really like the companies that have figured out how to systematize those things that maybe for some of us, men aren’t the most important things. You know, the birthdays, the anniversaries. You know, we’re looking for the next win, right? I want to know when my next win is going to be, and that’s what I’m focused on. And then something comes up and I’m totally unprepared and I fail as a father or a husband.
John Berry: And I’m looking at I’m like, man, I should have paid more attention to that. But I didn’t want to take my eye off the ball. And I think when I systematized those things, they work out a lot better. But yeah, the accountability is huge in the other areas for me. What do you do when you have a client that keeps giving you the excuse, oh, I really want this, Jamie. I really want this. I’m going to do it. I’m committed to it. You know, like they say, they’re going to lose weight and you say, okay, that’s great. What did you have for breakfast this morning? I had a donut. What did you have yesterday, a donut. What did you have the day before? You’re telling me you want to lose weight? Do you really want to lose weight? Because if you really want to lose weight, you’re not eating the donuts. So your behavior is telling me different than what your mouth is telling me. Of course your mouth is telling that donut. Yes, but the mouth should be saying, no, I’m not going to do this because I’m committed. So how do you handle that when you have the clients who have a they say they have a strong desire, but their actions tell you differently.
Jamie Peer: Yeah. So, um, in the curriculum that I use, uh, for everybody that starts out, um, we, we dive into, you know, what are the, the paradigms that you hold about different things like, and I just, I just had this session this morning about fear and how fear can hold us back. Sometimes it’s fear of other people’s opinions, fear of, um, failure that stops people. Um, sometimes it’s, you know, when they get too far away from the pain point, like when they lose that first 5 lbs and they’re like, oh, I can do this. This is easy. I don’t have to try so hard. And then they go eat the donut. Um, but just reconnecting them with that point on the horizon, like, where are you trying to go and why? And then what do you think is stopping you? Like if you say this is important yet you’re continuing to do these self-sabotaging behaviors? Is it is it possible that it’s the fear of the unknown that’s keeping you stuck, that’s pulling you back to the I call it the gravitational pull of the familiar. Sometimes we’re willing to stay in a less than ideal situation because we know it. Versus what is what could change about my life if I got in great shape, or what could change in my life if I got financially solvent and actually started saving money.
Jamie Peer: That that’s a that’s outside of my comfort zone. That’s outside of what I’ve known my. Maybe my whole life. Maybe my parents weren’t great with money, or my family was unhealthy. You know, if I go off and become successful with my family, think that I’m too big for my britches, or will they, you know, write me off. Um, all kinds of things play into why people self-sabotage like that. And so, I don’t mind spending time just kind of digging in. I’m not a psychologist, necessarily, but fear, doubt, worry. Those are I mean, that’s absolutely natural. That’s what kept us alive, you know, since caveman days is, you know, looking for what could possibly go wrong and then keeping myself safe. So, when you think that reaching some goal could change your life in ways that you can’t even imagine, your brain will actually be like fear, fear, fear. Let’s just stay in the cave, right? And I understand that. So, I have compassion on it. And we continue to work through it.
John Berry: Well, do you ever deal with adrenaline junkies like me where the fear is the fuel, right? Where it’s like, okay, I’m gonna throw up a bunch of billboards. Why? Because I don’t really care if I fail. People say, well, people are going to say stuff about you. I’m like, they’re saying stuff about me anyway. And I’m even more worried about nobody talking about me. Right. So, it’s I have no problem with the haters. I have no problem with the objections. Uh, but it’s it is like, you know, the more I’m scared of it, the more I’m drawn to it. And can that be a problem for some of the people that you coach?
Jamie Peer: Sure. So that’s where, you know, again, because we’re focused on all the quadrants of your life. Um, absolutely being driven in your career to have the next win to to get the next client, all those things, that’s great. But, you know, where are you taking time and energy away from? And is it getting you the results in that other area of your life that you would love? So, you know, as a recovering workaholic from the military, I put all my best time and energy. I was the first person to work. I was the last person to leave, and it showed up in my evaluations. I always got great evaluations from my boss, but if somebody had done an evaluation with my kids on how present are you when you get home? How many you know, mommy and me cupcake days have you skipped? All of them? You know, all those kinds of things. And my kids still tease me. You know, they see the changes that have happened in my life since I’ve worked on, you know, creating balance. I don’t think there is such an existence of total balance all the time, but like creating it and they’re like, you’re a totally different person than you were back then. But every once in a while, they love to give me a little jab. Like, well, all the other moms were at that thing in second grade. Right, right. You know, how do you even know?
John Berry: Right. Yeah, yeah. Kids. Kids, remember? Or at least they have these perceptions. Yeah. And they’ll stick with them. So how do you overcome the limiting beliefs that some of your clients have? For example, um, when I first met my, my wife, we were working on a case together. She worked at a different law firm. And I’m trying to decide whether this is someone I want to try more cases with and work with. I ask them the question, what is it that you really want? Why are why are you doing this right? And she says, well, I want to be the best female criminal defense lawyer in the state. And I said, well, why does female matter? Why are you limiting to that? And she goes, you know what? I don’t even know. I don’t even know why that came out of my mouth. But that’s that. That’s my that’s my goal. And I thought, well, why not just be the best criminal lawyer in the state? Why? Why would gender even play a role? And she’s like thinking, I’m like, do you think that you can’t beat all the guys? And she’s like, well, no, that’s not it. Well then why does this, why does this come out of your mouth? So I’ve always been wondered about when I, when I talk to team members about their goals and I try to do it regularly, some of them have these like limits on what they want, and I don’t know where it comes from. So where do our limiting beliefs come from? Why do we put a cap on some things?
Jamie Peer: Oh, yeah. Uh, again, I just talked about this earlier with a client. So, um, these limiting beliefs are often we acquire them through our family of origin. Our parents, teachers, coaches, clergy, you know, first bosses. Um, and sometimes we just we just pick it up from conversation. Um, I, I picked up, you know, some limiting beliefs when I was in the military in the beginning because of the things that I heard people say. And they weren’t even saying it about me, but they were saying it about somebody else. And based on my perception of, you know, well, you know, I’m about that person’s, you know, build I’m about that person’s, you know, age. If it’s true for them, it might be true for me. And I never had anybody challenging my limiting beliefs. So, you know, I remember definitively in 2008, reading for the first time, you are not your thoughts. And I was like, do you mean I’m not my thoughts? And then I learned about like, you can observe your thoughts and sometimes we just need to take a step back from these things that we’re saying to ourselves. We don’t even realize we’re doing it. But once we do, asking ourselves, like, where did that come from? And if we if we spend enough time on it, we can get to, oh, I remember my grandpa when I was six said, you know, girls aren’t farmers or girls, you know, girls don’t do this.
Jamie Peer: Go, girls don’t do that. I didn’t even think to question it. I just made a connection in my brain that that must be true because my grandpa said it and never questioned it until, like, with you and your wife. Um, you heard her say it, so you know it’s in her. She says it out loud, and then you’re like, hey, why does that have to be true for you? Why can’t you just be the best? And that is another thing that coaches do for clients is I’ll sit and listen to you tell your version of, you know, reality, and then I’ll just pick out these little nuggets like this. You know, I heard you say this, does that have to be true for you? And then you see that light bulb come on, like with your wife? Well, actually, I guess it doesn’t have to be true for me. And then they thank you, and they think you’re so wise and amazing. And it’s like that was. That was easy.
John Berry: Okay, let’s go to a darker example now. Ah. And this is one that, uh, a lot of I think business owners deal with managers deal with is that, you know, as a small children, mom is always talking about the boss. And we’ll just say the boss’s name is Ronnie, right? So, mom’s always complaining about what a bad person Ronnie is. It’s Ronnie’s fault. Mom has to work on Christmas. It’s Ronnie’s fault. Mom has to work overtime. It’s Ronnie’s fault that we aren’t making enough money because he’s not paying mom enough. And it’s Ronnie’s fault that mom got put on a leave of absence. And it’s Ronnie’s fault that mom got fired. But what the kids don’t know is mom got put on a leave of absence because she was spending all day on Facebook, not working, and mom got fired because she showed up too drunk to work drunk. And so, you know, but the kids just see Ronnie, as, you know, the archetypal boss. So now when they go into the workforce, all they know is the boss is a mean, evil person who abused their mother, and they don’t know the truth, but the truth to them. What is comfortable to them is the boss is bad, the company is bad. They hurt their mother. And so how do you help people overcome that where they have these beliefs, these negative beliefs based on things that may or may not be true in their life, uh, that that affect their performance and their drive and their desires going forward.
Jamie Peer: Um, yeah. That’s a that’s a really, um, interesting question. And I and I haven’t you know what? You can’t ever know unless mom comes forward and tells the truth, right? Is we can’t change people’s perceptions of us. It’s going to be what it is. Um.
Jamie Peer: You know.
Jamie Peer: To. This isn’t me being a life coach. This is me just being kind of a matter of fact person. And I think you can appreciate this is at some point those people have to ask themselves, you know, how is this working for me? To go into work with a bad attitude, thinking the boss is out to get me thinking that, you know, I’m not getting paid enough and all these other things, like I am taking all of my power away from myself in that situation. Like nobody’s holding a gun to my head to keep me coming to this place. Nobody’s, you know, keeping me from applying to another job. Nobody’s keeping me from developing skills that can get me paid more. Um, and I don’t know what somebody can do with that mindset unless life gets so hard that they reach a breaking point and they say, I can’t do this without some help, and I don’t know about you, but I’ve had some of those moments in my life where it feels like a rock bottom. Of course, everybody, you know, there’s people out there that have way worse experiences in life, but sometimes we have to reach that rock bottom before we realize, like, I don’t know what I’m doing.
Jamie Peer: And my current situation is not working for me. And now I’m open to somebody saying, you know, hey, you know, that may have been true in that situation with your mom, but does that have to be true in every work situation? And the answer is obviously no. Okay. So, let’s just work with what you’ve got to deal with. And are you coming in with the best attitude? Are you giving your best effort? If you are, if you really feel honestly that you are, then why are you staying in a situation where you’re not appreciated? What does that say about you and your self-respect? You know, I mean, these are these are hard questions that that a lot of people don’t want to face. But what I have learned is most people have that are like that have to reach a rock bottom, either divorce or a health issue, or getting fired or something else, you know, bankruptcy before they’re like, ah, I, I need help.
John Berry: Okay, you just made that look real easy because you were able to just talk through it rationally. But when you want to change that paradigm with a client or someone else, how hard is it to get them to start to see that their, their limiting beliefs or their limiting experiences are preventing them from going where they want to go? Is this something that you can is like a one session, you can change it, or is this something that takes months or years?
Jamie Peer: Um, I do a very logical curriculum that addresses like we start with creating a vision. We address fear, doubt, worry. We even get into forgiveness. I mean, that’s a big thing for a lot of people. And it applies to what you were talking about. Like if I am holding this tension in my body and this loathing hatred for, you know, people in authority or bosses or whatever, like, how is that affecting me and would it be better if I just let it go so I can move forward happier, healthier, you know, better? Um, here’s another thing, John. People don’t come to me because they want to stay stuck. They come to me because they’re like, I don’t like where I’m at, and I want to get better. So that’s, you know, I’m not just dealing with anybody. I’m dealing with people who have come to me curious about what I do. We sit down, we have a conversation. We do current state, future state. They fall so in love with the possibility of this future state that they’re like, I’m willing to put in the work to get there. And then I just show up for them. So that’s one of the good things about what I do is people are coming to me because they want to be there, kind of like Special Forces or Rangers. They’re not doing it just because they ended up there. They’re doing it because they chose to be there, and they’re willing to put in the work.
John Berry: So and they’re smart enough to know that they can’t read the label from inside the jar, that there are things that they have blind spots. It’s like the 360 leadership assessment, right? Where, okay, your boss sees something different than your peers, who sees something that you’re different from your subordinates, and you never see the entire beach ball unless you have someone on the other side of the ocean who can see it and say, yeah, no, these are the colors I’m seeing. And I think that’s really difficult for us. But what if we shift that now to your high performers who are coming to you and they’re not happy because all they want is the next win. So for me, it’s I win the I win the jury trial. I’m happy for a minute and I’m okay. I got to win the next trial. We’re going bigger and we’re going bigger, and it’s you keep chasing that dragon because once you have one success, you become addicted to the success. You want more, you want a better team. You want a bigger future for all your team members. And you keep building on it. But there’s an emptiness to that. And it obviously leaves a lot of, uh, collateral damage in the wake because as you’re, you know, heading down at 100 miles an hour, you’re breaking a lot of things and you’re leaving them in the dust. Fortunately, we have, uh, sometimes executive assistants and team members who will who will pick up the pieces after we create the damage. But how is that coaching different when you have someone who’s you might consider a high performer in the business aspect, but a low performer at home, as you explained, when you were the high performing the military, but not quite the person you wanted to be at home.
Jamie Peer: Yeah for sure. Well, this is a very interesting question because, um, I, I have ended up coaching a lot of my friends who happen to be high performers in the military. I’ve coached, uh, former Corps G1s. I’ve coached women that are going to the War College or have been through the War College. Um, people are they’re on their way there. And so I’ve seen especially a lot of high performing females in the military, which is a tough place to be successful by any measure, especially if you’re a woman and you know what is, I don’t want to say sad, but it’s interesting is that a lot of people get so much praise and accolades and that dopamine hit from the work, and you and you go home and your kids aren’t thanking you for doing the laundry, or your spouse isn’t thanking you for taking out the trash. They’re not giving you a ribbon. They’re not paying you more, you know? And so, it’s really easy to get addicted to those dopamine hits in that one area of life. And think about it from a woman’s perspective. You know, for millennia, these things, you know, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the family, all these things were just expected. And now I can go somewhere where they value what I do. They pay me to do it. You know, they’re thanking me.
Jamie Peer: I’m getting awards and recognition and promotions and all these things. It’s very tempting to want to spend as much time there as possible. But when I talk to these high performing women, by and large, their relationships are suffering, their social life is suffering, uh, their mental health is suffering sometimes, you know, they overcompensate in the gym because they want to fit the, the military standard. Um, but then they’re actually doing long term damage that they’re not even aware of until they retire. You know, that was part of the reason you and I have been in touch is because I’ve had to go through the physical disability process, and a lot of that was just grinding, you know, way past the point of, uh, muscle failure because I was trying to achieve something. Um, and it’s not to say that I wasn’t a good person or a good officer. It was just to say, like, you know, I didn’t need to do that to myself to prove a point. I if I had been more checked in with my body, if I would have been more checked in with my mental health, more checked in with my family, um, I probably wouldn’t. I didn’t always need to be the first person at work and the last person to leave. I could have coached a kids’ soccer team once in a while, you know, things like that.
Jamie Peer: And, you know, when we think about why are we doing what we’re doing, usually the real why is I want to provide a great life for my family. But we don’t very often ask ourselves, what does my family define as a great life? What does my spouse define as a great relationship? And maybe I need to be more concerned about what they think and less concerned about work, what work thinks. And if I find that it’s very, very challenging because once we’re in the once we’re in it. Right. It’s kind of like my labrador retriever when he’s playing fetch, like there’s I can’t distract him with anything. He is on the mission. But like you mentioned before, having those systematized checks and balances, you know, getting vacations on the calendar before anything else so that you know, you’re going to be taking a break, get, you know, prioritizing your kids school events and making a commitment to be there and working around that. There is a way to do this. But if we don’t ever stop and put those things on the calendar and ground our priorities that way, we’re just going to be focused on the next thing in front of our face, which for most of us, the majority of that time is work.
John Berry: Do you ever do like 18 month calendar workshops with your with your clients where you take them and say, okay, we’re going to buy these big calendars, put them on the wall, we’re going to plan out 18 months. And the first thing we’ll do is put in all your important dates, birthdays, vacations, you know, if you want to go to Europe, we’re putting it on here and then and then work them back, kind of the boulders to the rocks, to the pebbles, to the sand type of thing. Do you do that as part of your coaching?
Jamie Peer: I, I do that personally. And I have shown many of my clients that technique and they’re like, oh, that’s brilliant. So, I actually have the next two years on 12 month calendars and I’m already putting things on there, like let two years ago I knew it was going to be my in-laws 50th anniversary. Towards the end of May, I bought the 2024 calendar and I put that on there, and I’ve had opportunities come in for that last week and I’m like, nope, it’s already on the calendar. So yeah, I mean, and we can do that. New Year’s, New Years when we’re on vacation for New Years Eve, that’s a great time to look ahead and say, okay, six months from now, would I love to be on the beach? Heck yeah. Let me book that trip now. So, there’s no question, you know, I look at my kids school calendars, my husband’s work calendars, my work, my works calendars. I lay them all out as soon as I get them and I’m like, okay, well, I’m not going to be able to do that because this is more important. And I’ll and I’ll let people know six months in advance and they’re like, oh, well, that, you know, that wasn’t hard and fast. We could shift it a week or two later. Cool. Now I can do both because I looked ahead and I communicated my needs. Go figure. And usually, those things can be worked out.
John Berry: And you said my needs. And I want to clarify. Do you mean your needs, or do you mean your wants? Right. Because we should never have to justify what we want. That was some of the best advice I got. It’s like, well, I really want this, but do I, do I really need that? And the thing is, well, no, I guess I really don’t need it to stay alive, but I want it. And if I’m going to stay motivated, I need it. So yeah, I guess I do need it and I don’t need to justify that to you. So how do you feel about that? Do we do you think that it’s important to want things without justification? And then how do you help manifest those things to your clients? Do you have them do vision boards, or how do you help them get clarity on the things that they really want and how they’re going to get them? Um, without having to deal with all the head trash that comes from? Well, I don’t know if I deserve that. Yeah, I like it, but I don’t know if I really need it, you know, and it’s like but then why are we doing this? Because we get enough, you know, food, shelter is we’re in America, right? This is not this is not a big problem for most of us. And I’m sure for most of your clients who are successful women, they figured it out. They’re not going to go into bankruptcy tomorrow. They have they have disposable income. They have luxury of time. Or you’re going to teach them how to have luxury of time. You’re going to teach them how to build more, uh, free time into their schedules. So how how do you deal with that when they’re saying, well, I don’t know if I really want this, but I do, but, you know, they want it. How do you convince them to go after what they want?
Jamie Peer: Mhm. Well, like I said, um, it’s all about communication. And one of the really good books that I just recently read was it was it’s called “Why Women Don’t Ask” or “Women Don’t Ask.” And I’m drawing a blank on the author at the moment. But this is an interesting phenomenon, John. And you might, you know, ask around and pay attention to this. It may not be so much in the law field. Um, but I do executive coaching for businesses as well. And it’s been interesting as I’ve looked at this is, you know, so. When we’re raised as girls, and in our society in particular, we’re told to wait to be asked to the prom, wait to be asked to be their girlfriend, wait to be asked to get married, you know, wait wait wait wait wait. Um, it’s it’s it’s considered forward or kind of bold and not not in a positive way to be one of those people. Now, maybe like women that, you know, in the field that you work in, that that boldness and that drive is rewarded. But in so many other segments of society, it is not rewarded, and it is not appreciated. And so, so women especially, are challenged to lean into not just what they want, but even what they need. Because we’re trained, you know, we meet everyone else’s needs before we get to our own.
Jamie Peer: And if we get to our own, that’s icing on the cake. But what often happens is we run out of time and we run out of energy, and then we aren’t taking care of ourselves. I talked to so many women who are like, I don’t have time to go to the gym. I don’t have time to meal prep. Well why not? Because I got to run my kid to this and I got to take the gotta do this, and my husband needs this, and la la la la la. They need it. Or they want you to do it because they you’re making it easier for them. So that’s where I do say, you know, in some cases we need to take great care of our health. I mean, you know, our this body is the only one we get while we’re here. So it is a need to make sure that I’m, you know, providing proper nutrients to my body, that I’m exercising it and keeping it strong and flexible. I need that to be successful in all areas of my life. But if I’m constantly like setting the alarm to go work out and then my kid needs something and I’m like, oh, I can’t go to the gym, then I’m not taking care of those needs. Um, and so, you know, kind of going back to the idea of what why women don’t ask.
Jamie Peer: It’s I think it’s kind of trained out of us to do that and not consciously. I don’t think anyone’s picking on women necessarily. But when those, those when those kinds of things aren’t challenged and say, okay, but do you realize, like if you are tired and if you are depressed, you’re not going to be the best wife and mother. You know, to your family, you’re not going to be the best employee, so you’re not going to get promoted. You’ve got to take care of yourself. So, um, I mean, there was a lot of lot to that question. I’m not sure I quite answered all of it, but, uh, yeah. Making your priorities a priority and and ask, you know, not even asking, but just saying this is what I need. I, you know, you want me here at 7 a.m. You also want me to stay here till six? You know, I’m going to the gym at noon because I got to take care of myself, or I’m going to be a waste to everybody. And if the employer can’t appreciate that you’re trying to take good care of yourself, they’re probably not a good employer anyway. So again, it’s time to find a new line of work.
John Berry: Yeah. And I think that that was one of the original qualities that really attracted me to my wife was that she was very assertive about what she wanted. And I can remember when we first started working on a case together, we were working at different firms. Uh, we weren’t together yet, but she’s like, well, okay, I’ll see you in an hour and a half. I’m going to yoga and I’m like, you have time in the middle of the day to exercise, because for me, I thought, no, you have to do it in the morning. And especially in the in the legal profession, you just, you know, the day if you wait till the afternoon, you may you don’t know what time you’re coming home. It’s like the military, right? Don’t even know when they’re coming home or if they’re coming home. It seems, you know, some nights we’re, you know, all nighters. And so it was a lot of work. And if I didn’t work out in the morning, it wasn’t going to happen. And she’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no. That’s not how it works. I run my calendar this way and from noon to 1:30 I work out and I eat and nobody touches that time. And I was like, wow. And that to me, that was that was a very attractive quality. And speaking with someone who knew what they wanted and were very assertive about getting what they wanted to me that’s like, yeah, this is a winner. And I love to be around winners. And for me, that was yeah, that was uh, you know, then I was like, man, why am I not taking charge of my life? Why am I getting fast food at noon? And this person is working out? What’s going on here? Why? Where am I failing? So it’s amazing how someone can set that example. They can have a ripple effect in their life and be like, yeah, why can’t I do this? I have these once again, limiting beliefs, right? Yeah.
Jamie Peer: So well, I, I think it’s really important to acknowledge like because she had determined that she wanted to be the best, you know, female at first, but then just best overall. She knew her health was going to play a key role in that. So, it as part of the overall goal of being the best at her profession, she knew she had to carve that time out and she did it. And that is exactly right. That’s exactly right. I can’t forsake everything else and be the best in one thing, because it’s all going to catch up with me at some point. Yeah.
John Berry: Great. Well, let’s transition then to something that’s a little bit more difficult, which is moral injury. I know that you’re a member of the, uh, Moral Injury Support Network for servicewomen, but if you could tell us what is moral injury? I hear it thrown around in the news, but I haven’t, you know, there’s been I’m not sure I completely understand the concept.
Jamie Peer: Yeah. So, um, well, there are a lot of definitions out there, and I don’t ascribe to one specific definition, but I can tell you generally what it is and it is, um, you know, speaking from the military. So, a lot of veterans that are given the diagnosis, diagnosis, post-traumatic stress disorder, if, if you take the time to listen to their stories, it isn’t that they expected to not run into death or destruction, or the possibility of being injured, or their buddies getting shot that really affects them. It’s how those situations were handled, or what were the circumstances that led to that situation, like bad decision making or trying to cover things up after the fact. And you know, when you come into an organization that espouses the types of values that the military does and, you know, speaking specifically for my Army experience, those values of loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, and personal courage. And then you see a leader do something that violates one of those moral codes and get away with it. It does something to you on the inside.
Uh, this is a silly example, but when you take 23 years of these types of situations and you add it all up, it makes sense why, you know, I get to the end of my career, and I’m totally burnt out because I watch commanders kick soldiers out for failing a PT test. And then I know, I know, they fudged theirs. They didn’t do height weight, but they wrote down, you know, the max weight that they could weigh without being taped. And they turned that into the commanding general for their evaluation, and they gave it to me to do it. Hey, Jamie, here’s my card. I’m like, I know you didn’t take your PT test, or I know you weighed 20 lbs. more than that, sir, but there were times where I would go to, let’s say it was the commander. I’d go to the XO, or I’d go to the deputy commander and say, hey, sir, um, the commander is the only person that hasn’t taken the urinalysis, and the soldiers are down there at 1700. What do I do? And the deputy commander says, tell them to pack it up. And I’m like, but, sir, it’s 100% urinalysis. The commander, he’s like, pack it up. I’m like, well, can you go in and tell him he hasn’t taken it yet? And he’s like, I’m not touching that with a ten foot pole. And I. Well, should I say something? Uh, if you want your career to end. Sure. Go for it.
Those kinds of situations I’m not being shot at. Nobody’s, like, threatening my life. They’re threatening my livelihood. But then I walk away from that, and I go tell the soldiers to pack it up.
Jamie Peer: What does that say about me? But I was put in that situation because the commander failed to do the right thing. The deputy commander failed to do the right thing. And now I’m the one that’s got to go look the soldiers in the eye and tell them he’s not showing up guys, just pack it up. But, ma’am, I know, and you feel hot and you feel conflicted. And the cognitive dissonance and that over and over and over again, you start to question, like, am I even a good person? You know, like I say, I’m saying these values are important too, but I’m not willing to put my to die on my sword for this. And then when you go to people like the chaplain and they’re like, hey, you know, live to fight another day, you know, just let that go. But you don’t let it go. It stores up in you because you do have a conscience, because you do have a healthy appreciation for these values. And, you know, that’s a that’s an easy example of what I’m talking about.
I, I’ve done interviews with, um, one of the women that’s going to be the keynote speaker at our conference in September. She was the country coordinator for Rwanda, the Chief Medical Nurse that was doing triage on Rwandans. And she was put in this situation where she had no no supplies, barely any staff,and instead of figuring out who had the worst situations so they could work on those people, she had to figure out who had the best situations for survival. And just she had to let those other people go. Now, did she start the war in Rwanda? No. Did she, you know, kill all these people? No. Or did she wound them? No. But she had taken on the responsibility for doing no harm as a medical professional. And yet she was having to decide who was going to have to deal with the harm. And she didn’t talk about it with anybody. She just stored it up inside of her and it has a lot of the same effects as PTSD. And that you feel guilt, you feel shame, you start to socially isolate. You lose faith in, you know, leadership and what’s right and wrong. You know, your sense of self is can be destroyed in these situations. And it’s just good people finding themselves in terrible situations and doing the best that they know how to do in the moment. But then later, you know, figuring out like, I wish I would have done that differently and I didn’t, and now I feel terrible, my morals are injured. So that’s a very long winded way of, you know, but to provide some context to a definition.
John Berry: That’s probably a great point. Now to transition to leadership and the After Action Review, where we talk about your three best examples of leadership and the three worst. And this can be in the military or in your civilian career. Uh, but please share with us those best examples. And you don’t have to use names, but just the traits and qualities.
Jamie Peer: Yeah, sure. Um, I did write these down because I really wanted to make sure I captured this, so, um, as you know, and maybe you didn’t have the same experience, but a lot of the issues that come up in the military is because, or just in employment in general is because, um, the duties, responsibilities and expectations weren’t clearly defined in the beginning. And people just expect people to figure things out. And if they don’t, then they’re a problem. Um, and I just remember I was all the way to the rank of major, so four levels up as an officer before the first supervisor, I had actually set me down in those first 30 days and said, hey, you know, I don’t know everything you’re supposed to do because I’m not Human Resources. But here’s what I need from you. Here’s what I expect. You know, as far as timeliness and accuracy and professionalism, here are my pet peeves, you know, and I know some of them are crazy, but I just want you to be aware. And then he also asked for feedback, like, you know, what are some of the things that you need as a, you know, somebody who, you know, for me as your supervisor, um, and, and we were really actually able to have like a clear dialogue on that stuff. And so, when I left after that first meeting, after my first 30 days, I felt like I knew exactly what to do, how to do it, I knew what not to do, and I felt way more confident than I had in so many other jobs where it’s just like, well, here’s your desk, here’s your computer. Uh. Good luck. So that’s one.
Number two is I had a boss that, um, he brought me into a situation. I was the HR person and one of the lieutenants had made a really bad decision. Uh, female lieutenant had gone out, um, with the company commander. And, you know, fraternization aside, they had both been drinking, and he said, I’m good, I can drive. And so, she got in the car with him. He got seriously in trouble, but he brought her in, and he gave her a letter of concern because, yes, she should have known better. But she’s super new to the organization. The company commander let her down by suggesting that he was able to drive when he really wasn’t, and he didn’t let her off the hook. He said, I am concerned about this, and if anything like this happens again, then it’s, you know, I’m really going to have to question your judgment. And I don’t think that would be good judgment for an officer to have. But the whole time he was talking to her, he did it with dignity and respect. She felt bad. She knew she was wrong, but he didn’t make her feel like a piece of crap.
Jamie Peer: And I just remember getting to witness that and being like, wow, that that is the kind of leader I want to be. Set standards, hold people accountable. But at the end of the day, we’re all human. We all make mistakes. And, you know, I don’t have to treat you like you’re less than human. And then my third great example is, uh, when I was the G-1 for First Infantry Division, I was in the rear detachment when the division went forward and I stayed back, our rear detachment, commanding general, um, without fail, he would read the newspaper, or he would look at the briefings that came across his desk. And if he saw good work or good statistics that, you know, we were managing, he would write a handwritten note and he would tape it to our door so that when we got to the office that day, we saw the note from the commander. And if he ever gave me those notes directly, I would make sure the team saw them, you know, put them up, put them up on the door, the corkboard or whatever. But just knowing that your boss is seeing your work and takes enough time to acknowledge it, even just a simple handwritten note like that was so motivating to my soldiers and I’ll never forget that. I just thought that was great.
John Berry: All right. Those are three great examples. Let’s talk about the bad ones.
Jamie Peer: Okay. Um. What I want to say. Not to be toxically positive, but while some of these things are like the worst things that ever happened, they definitely made me a better leader. So I I’ve done a lot of work on this stuff and I’m like, actually, I think they’re great because they really help me. But I had a couple bosses that they wanted to impress the boss, and so they would come up with pet projects. That had nothing to do with the mission, had nothing to do with what the boss was asking for, just for the icing on their own cake, and they would delegate it down to the to me and our in our soldiers. And it was just like, why are we doing this? And nobody could explain it other than we’re trying to get the boss a bullet on their OER. The just try to make them look good. So I always tried to make sure because of that, I always tried to make sure that what I’m asking my soldiers to do is something that the that the top boss has directly asked for, and we’re just going to provide that. And if the boss is happy, we’re happy, we’re going to get out the door, you know, on time. I didn’t make stuff up just to look good.
John Berry: I got to jump in here because this is so dangerous on the civilian side. I had this happen. I had a leader that had a lot of pet projects and then would give those pet projects to the lawyers. And our lawyers have certain billable hour requirements and metrics that we track. And what was happening was they weren’t meeting the metrics because they were spending all the time on the pet projects. And the problem was the pet projects were not revenue generating projects. So, what happened was this leader was using his authority to give work to individuals who had other obligations, more higher priority work to do. But know this, these pet projects took priority because all they saw was this is what my direct supervisor wants, as opposed to looking at the commander’s intent two levels up, right? So, the problem was it was really bad for the organization. It cost us a lot financially, but it also created a cultural issue, a lot of distrust in that leader and leadership in general. Because why is the leadership allowing these pet projects to happen? And then by the time I found out I was, I failed as kind of being an absent leader, not understanding what was going on. Uh, you know, by then a lot of the damage was done, and we had to make some tough decisions about the future of the organization to fix those issues. So yes, if you’re a leader and you start giving out pet projects and there’s no reason for them but your own glory, you’re not a leader. And please stop. Thank you. Jamie. Okay. Sorry, sorry to interrupt, but that one hit home.
Jamie Peer: No. Yeah. I mean, I think we’ve all experienced these things, um, you know, just to bring it a little bit more in the personal realm. Um, I had a boss one time early on, so I’m a I’m a brand new lieutenant. Um, or not brand new. But, you know, I’d been through OBC and all the things, and I got to my first unit, and I just had a baby, and my husband was getting ready to go to his OBC because our times weren’t we weren’t quite synced. Um, and this commander or this, uh, he was a staff officer. He wasn’t even a commander, a deputy G1 he wanted to make sure that I had a family care plan, that I had a way. Like, if I had to deploy, um, I, my daughter would be taken care of. Um, and instead of trusting me and the plan that I had, he created a TDY situation, a Temporary Duty situation. I was in Fort Riley, and he sent me to Fort Drum, New York for two weeks just to see if this plan would work. And it did, but it put my in-laws in a pinch a little bit, and it was definitely stressful for me because when I got there, there wasn’t really anything for me to do. They gave me busy work. They, you know, had me making copies and, you know, just really way below what I, what I was trained to do.
Jamie Peer: And when I got back, he’s like or actually while we were there, um, he ended up communicating, there was a peer of mine we commissioned on the same day, like same day to rank same everything, he would talk to that lieutenant and tell him to tell me what to do. And I’m standing right there. So, I don’t know what his, you know, bias was against me or what, but I really felt like he was picking on me, and all that did was undermine my trust in him. My, you know, I didn’t look to him as a leader. I looked at him as somebody who was trying to make life harder. And it didn’t stop me from doing good work. But man, it really ticked me off. And I it, it, it’s those kinds of things that people do that where people out good people that want to serve, that want to do a good job, and they just make it so darn complicated and hard just to prove a point. Um, that didn’t need to be proved. I had a family care plan. I didn’t need to leave my daughter for two weeks, and especially if he didn’t have anything for me to do. So that’s a that’s a bad that was an example. And I was like, I’m never going to do that to anybody. I’m never going to force them to leave their family just to prove that they can.
John Berry: Well, and there’s been a cultural shift. And earlier this week we recorded a podcast with Colonel Irene Glaser, and she’s now the CEO of a govcon company. It’s called Spahr. But she wrote a book called “Choose Your Battles,” and she talks about being a pregnant second lieutenant in the Army in the 1980s. And they referred to that as the kiss of death. If you’re a young officer and you’re pregnant, that’s the end of your career. So they would call it the kiss of death. So, yeah, this is, uh, this is your example is not something that is unique to the old army. I’m not sure it’s the same now, but like I said, back in the 80s, she had a very similar experience. So, I’d really encourage you to take a look at her book and maybe connect with her on LinkedIn. LinkedIn. But yeah, it’s called “Choose Your Battles.” And uh, same thing. Kiss of death. It was called The Kiss of Death. It’s crazy.
Multiple People: Yeah.
Jamie Peer: And they could have just been an old school mentality that he was doing that. But, you know, I decided I’m not I’m not going to be like that. Um, so it was good, uh, in the end. And then, you know, just having, uh, dismissive leaders who because they were busy and they were focused on things that were more important, they would dismiss or try to brush under the rug things that were actually really important. And just to give you an example, um, you know, I was in a brigade combat team getting ready to deploy. And, uh, there’s key and essential, you know, positions in every unit. And there may only be one of that one person that can do the job, and that makes them key and essential. Um, but this particular, uh, NCO had sexually harassed in front of other people, sexually harassed a female lieutenant who was considered excess to the unit. Right. She there was she was like a assistant something to something. Um, and instead of holding him accountable and doing due diligence on that situation, they moved her out of the unit and let him stay. And to my knowledge, and I would have been, you know, privy to this information. He wasn’t flagged. Nothing happened because he was key and essential for that unit to be able to deploy. And, you know, while the ability to deploy is obviously, you know, very, very important to national security, it also sends a very, very powerful message to the other members of the team.
Jamie Peer: I can get away with this if I’m important enough. And if I’m not perceived as important, I can just get, you know, we can just brush those people aside. But the effects, you know, undermine trust, undermine the credibility, you know, and all that kind of stuff. And it creates a cancer in the unit. And it was it was that way in that unit, you would walk into their headquarters, and you could just feel it was off. And I think it’s because they had the wrong priorities, and they didn’t hold people accountable. So, seeing those kinds of things, you know, when we talk about moral injury, um, not really being in the position to do anything about it, I said what I needed to say, um, leaders all the way up to the top were just like, ah, we got to get these guys out the door. And then by the time the deployment’s over, everybody’s forgotten about it except the person that got harassed. And, you know, that kind of stuff is really, really tough. And that’s not to say it’s pervasive and that happens all the time. But in those instances that do, it really leaves it effect.
I wouldn’t be the person that I am today and able to do the things that I do without all of these life changing experiences, the good and the bad. Um, one of the things when you’re starting your own business or you’re, you know, endeavoring to lead people through, you know, business or as a coach or whatever is you’ve got to have confidence. And that confidence really, truly can only come from experience and having to navigate all kinds of complex situations, um, successfully. And so, the military, you know, I know there are other very challenging fields out there. First responders, fire, police. You know, I know that, um, but for me, the military just brought out a whole nother version of me that I don’t think I could have been without that experience. Um, and then just the endless opportunities to lead people be around people, figure out what motivates them, what, you know, kills their motivation. Um, meeting people from all over the country, all demographics, all backgrounds. You learn so much and you really can appreciate, you know, the lived experiences of other people so much better by exposing yourself in a situation like the military. And then it definitely gave me a lot of experience performing under stress, under stressful situations, um, figuring out things quickly because they had to be done, and then making my decisions transparent to the people underneath me. Um, so they understood the why, and not just because I said so. Um, and that is, you know, as I’ve continued on in business and executive coaching, using all of those skills and experiences of definitely amplified my effectiveness in what I do.So, yeah.
John Berry: Yeah, absolutely. And some of the worst coaches I’ve had are the ones who don’t have the experience. They want to tell me how to do something based on a book they read or their study. And I understand curriculum is important and it’s good to have a plan, but if you don’t have the life experience, it’s very hard to really take someone down that path or help them climb the mountain that you’ve never climbed. So, I, I greatly appreciate and you’re absolutely right. Our military experiences, good or bad, have shaped up, have shaped us and given us a great advantage when it comes to leading our communities and leading our businesses. And as you know, business is not easy. You get in and people think, well, are you just going to go in, you’re going to talk to some people, you’re going to help them. But it’s not. There’s a whole other process to it. There’s that you know nothing about. But you do know through the military that you have to be comfortable being uncomfortable, that leaders are learners and that you’re going to get there as long as you do the work. And unfortunately, it’s not that you come out of the military, and you can do anything. In fact, you just know that it’s going to be hard, and you can do hard. So, thank you so much for being on Veteran Led. Uh, if you want to get a hold of Jamie, her well, I’ll let you give the contact information. It’s in the show notes as well. I guess if you don’t want to give your direct email, that’s fine. But, uh, but for high performing individuals or people who want to be high performing individuals that need a performance coach, how can they get a hold of you? Jamie.
Jamie Peer: So, if you want to learn more about me and the type of coaching I do, you can just go to jamiepeer.com, and it’s just my name dot com. Um, and then my email is jamie@jamiepeer.com. I do spell it Jamie just for clarity’s sake because I get a lot of people, you know, switching the letters around. Um, that’s really the best way. And you can get a discovery call set up. I do free 30 minute discovery calls just to learn a little bit more about you, share a little bit about me, and figure out if what I do feels like a good fit. And if it is, then the next step is we set up a strategy session and we figure out where you’re at and where you’d love to be, and we kind of go from there. Um, but I also do executive coaching. I can do kind of, you know, in the, in the moment coaching with people if they’re just, you know, feeling like there’s a fork in the road, we can sit and talk about it. Um, but otherwise, yeah, that’s, that’s the best way to get a hold of me.
John Berry: That’s great. And I have a friend that has a coach, and she’d be like, yeah, I just texted my coach. Are you one of those? Like, I’m available right now, coach, are you one of those? Like I’m available in the time slot?
Jamie Peer: Well, I’m available like I tell my when I, when I have a client and they’re, you know, paying me, I’m like, my time is your time and I’ll get to you as soon as I can. So, if I’m at my daughter’s, you know, softball game, I’m going to be present for that because that’s role modeling the behavior I want my clients to have. Right. But maybe if my husband’s driving the car on the way home, I’ll say, hey, let’s set up a time later today, you know, 20 minutes and we can talk about this. So, I’m quasi available all the time, but I have notifications, you know, turned off at night and stuff like that.
John Berry: And I think that’s important because what I found is sometimes when we hit those moments and as leaders, we all hit them where we need a sanity check. And it’s like, okay, I think I’ve got the solution here and I’m going to pull the trigger on this thing, but I need someone who is not inside of my head right now to take a look and give me some objective, honest feedback. And so, I always appreciate that, because sometimes the greatest need for the coach is not at 2:00 in the afternoon. It might be at two in the morning, but, you know, I’ll wait till six to call you. But, uh, but that is I think that that that’s important that the coach is invested in your success and, and obviously, Jamie, through your military career, you know what it means to invest in the success of others. You’ve done that with your soldiers, and you’ve done that with your family. So, thank you so much for being on the Veteran Led podcast, and thank you for what you continue to do for our veterans.
Jamie Peer: Yes. Thanks, John. This was a lot of fun and I appreciate the opportunity.
John Berry: Thank you for joining us today on Veteran Led, where we pursue our mission of promoting veteran leadership in business, strengthening the veteran community, and getting veterans all of the benefits that they earned. If you know a leader who should be on the Veteran Led podcast, report to our online community by searching @veteranled on your favorite social channels and posting in the comments, we want to hear how your military challenges prepared you to lead your industry or community, and we will let the world know. And of course, hit subscribe and join me next time on Veteran Led.
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