In this episode of the Veteran Led Podcast, John Berry is joined in the studio with David Stott, a former Marine and police officer turned entrepreneur in the home inspection industry. David discusses the challenges of transitioning that many veterans face and the importance of preparedness and resilience when entering the civilian business world. David highlights the soft skills he learned in the military, such as punctuality, respect, responsiveness, attention to detail and communication, that helped him stand out against competitors and win the trust of his clients. Don’t miss this informative episode with actionable insights on transitioning from soldier to entrepreneur.
Learn more about David’s business:
https://www.guardianhomeinspect.com/
David Stott: I actually had a realtor ask me one time because I was fresh out of the gate going into this job or in this career field, and it was all in, and the real estate agent had asked me, well, where basically the same question you just asked as far as where that drive comes from, and it really comes down to a no fail mentality. Um, or failure is not an option. You constantly run into conflict, constantly run into setbacks, and whether that is career related or just mission related, but you still have to accomplish that mission. Um, and so to just to throw in the towel, it’s not an option.
John Berry: Welcome to the Veteran Led podcast, where we talk with leaders who use their military experiences to develop great organizations and continue to serve their communities.
David Stott: After I got out of the military, I decided to start my own company. That company is called Guardian Home Inspections. So we are doing real estate inspections, mostly for buyers, but we can also do for do it for sellers as well. Um, and it’s, it’s been, it’s been busy. Um, but to your point, it hasn’t been it hasn’t been easy. Um, that transition was not easy. Um, and just getting off the ground. Um, wasn’t as easy as I thought it would be. Um, and if I can go back to when. When I did get out. So it was it was a medical retirement, but it was after 20 years. So I had I had time for a retirement. Um, but one of the, the key lessons that I would tell people that are either planning on getting out of the military or if it’s or it’s a possibility, start planning early on what it is you want to do this. This happened to me very quickly. Um, and I was not prepared for the other side of it. My goal was to stay in the military for until they told me I had to leave. They told me I had to leave. It was just earlier than what? What I had planned. Um, so figuring out what it was, what was going to be next. That’s where the home inspection side came in. Um, and then developing the plan to move forward with it was a whole different, a whole different set of rules.
John Berry: So, you know, you’re going to get out at some point. It’s like being an athlete. That career never lasts forever. And in fact, David, you were you ran track at the University of Oklahoma and your career Tulsa. I’m sorry. And your career was cut short by an injury, isn’t that correct? What happened?
David Stott: Um, it was a steeplechase injury, actually. Um, I had fractured a bone in my foot at Oklahoma State at an outdoor meet, and that was the ultimate reason. Was that could have it could have been a redshirt situation. But I with the injury, I just kind of got to a point where I was, I was done. I knew the I knew that I was done and so I made that decision. So but yeah, like you said, those careers, those endeavors will come to an end at some point. So having a plan for the backside. I’m a slow learner because even then I didn’t have a plan of okay, if I if I don’t choose to continue on this path, what am I going to do next? And that was kind of a fly by the seat of my pants then. And here we are 20 years later and we’re still doing the same thing. So.
John Berry: So that was before you enlisted?
David Stott: Yes. So that was. After I left Tulsa, I went to University of Nebraska. Um, and then University Nebraska, Kearney. That was right before nine over 11 happened. So then when 9/11 happened that fall, that was kind of the catalyst, obviously, to join the military. The military had always been on the horizon, something I wanted to do, but that was really obviously and I’m sure with, with a lot of people that in our, in our generation, our kind of age range that that was, that was a big it was either a big deciding point or it was a big, obviously, um, big event in their early military careers.
John Berry: So, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, for me, it was I got back from Bosnia ‘99, and it all simmered down. I said, okay, well, by 2000 I was I was in law school and then September 11th hits, and unfortunately, I was still in the reserve component. So I got to get back in and back in the swing of things and got the opportunity to deploy and serve again. But it was it was it was a very important time in our lives. And once again, not something anyone had planned for. Uh, for a lot of us, we didn’t even think about, okay. At the time, they didn’t seem that there was going to be any threats. It didn’t see that there was going to be any. You know, the military future was it was on a drawdown from, uh, the first Gulf War. And so it seemed like, you know, this is a drawdown. The military, you know, everything is safe. And then it happens. And I don’t see this as much different than planning for getting out of the military or planning, you know, getting that unexpected injury. It’s something happens and you have to be ready. And if you’re not planning ahead, you’re going to get smoked.
David Stott: You’re absolutely correct. Um, I was I was lucky enough that the way that my retirement happened, I had a at least a little bit of a glideslope essentially before I actually got out. So I had some time to course correct and figure out what it was going to be before I actually left the service. So in that nine months leading up to the actual retirement date, um, I utilized the there’s a program within the veteran or within the VA called VR&E. Um, I was I was qualified for that. So I used that to help pay for the training and the schooling.
John Berry: And VR&E, do you know what it stands for? It used to.
David Stott: Be Vocational Rehab and Education. Now, now I believe it is Veteran’s Readiness and Employment. Okay. Um, it’s a program that that veterans on their way out or even while they’re in, if they if they meet a certain criteria. And I don’t want to like, misquote it, but there’s a certain criteria within the rating system that if you qualify for that, they will help pay for you to go to additional schooling, um, or job training to help place you into a career field. Post-military. So it was a good opportunity and it helped set me up, at least through the training aspect of it. Now, getting the business up and running, that was more kind of on on my own, uh, kind of trial by error learning as I was going. I don’t have a business background. So it was it really was trial and trial and error, uh, up until the point where it was the last active duty check hit and it was kind of jumping into the deep end.
John Berry: So all of a sudden that direct deposit isn’t coming in and you’ve got the business. Now, I know that there I know some veterans who have started businesses and they they, they’re small business loans and there’s other ways that they can get started. Did you use any of those programs?
David Stott: I did not, and the reason why I didn’t was the home inspection industry, at least from my experience, there wasn’t there wasn’t a large overhead or a large starting cost. The, the VA had paid for my training, which, which was a substantial cost, but it was paid for by the VA. And then as far as just getting up and out the door, it was very minimal. So I didn’t have to go and utilize any of those types of loans. Or assets, I guess.
John Berry: And so in terms of. You’ve got a business that has relatively low overhead, your military experience, we owe you because you served the VA pays for that training and now, you’re out. You got a low overhead business. What challenges are you facing at this point when you first start off?
David Stott: This is the home inspection industry. It’s one of those it’s one of those industries, at least. Again, from my experience, it’s not one of those things that everybody needs every day. There’s obviously a demand for it, but it’s not. It’s just an example like a coffee company. Or take your pick of something that people are constantly at across a wide swath of people seeking out every day. This is something that is kind of specific. If you’re buying a house or you’re selling a house, and that’s not everybody every day. So it’s a referral type based business. Um, so the biggest challenge was getting my name out there and getting in front of realtors and or buyers and sellers on a private level and saying, hey, I’m new to this game. Um, will you give me a shot? So that was that was the biggest upfront challenge.
John Berry: So do you know, like, what is the LTV, the Lifetime Value of a Client or most of them one time clients, or do they keep coming back to you or how does how does that work in the industry? Yeah, so.
David Stott: I have I have had a lot of one time clients. And essentially if someone is buying a house, they may be in that house for 10, 15, 20 years or more. Um, but I’ve also had a significant number of multiple, you know, um, occasion clients that have that have used me on multiple occasions, um, that have either had me inspect a house and had fallen through, or there was significant issues that they decided to walk away from that, from that deal. And then they were impressed enough by the level of service that we had provided to say, okay, we found another house. We want you to come check this one out too.
John Berry: Great. Now, when you say we now you have. When you started, did you start off alone as a solopreneur or did you have someone else in your team at that point?
David Stott: So I started by myself. Um, and as that first year progressed, um, I knew that there was an opportunity to kind of scale up just a little bit. Um, and Bo Felts, who was also in the National Guard, was on his way out and retiring as well. And in our conversations, we decided that, you know what, we can I can bring you on. He has an extensive background or understanding of some construction aspects that that as far as the building side of it goes that I don’t um, so he, he brings a different level of talent that, that, that complements, you know, some of my weaknesses, I guess, for lack of better terms. Um, so he came on board after he retired. And so now he is focusing right now anyway on doing some of the handyman stuff. Um, while I’m while I’m kind of still, still steering the ship on the home inspection side, he’s, uh, he’s doing some home inspections, but I know he’s tied up with some with some other projects right at the moment as well.
John Berry: And, you know, when it comes to home inspection, I think of, you know, really understanding whether standards have been met. You know, you’re going through the checklist. And in my mind, it’s not much different than when I had the TAC officers like you making sure that every candidate was qualified and evaluating them. The STX lanes, for instance, you took the candidates on, you would make sure, well, they were supposed to make sure that they that they, they achieved every single standard. But I know that that was part of your job was to make sure was to keep that checklist. And if they didn’t achieve the standard, you had to say, no, you are a no-go and we’re going to have to retrain. And I take it it’s the same way in the home inspection business, where there are a lot of no-go type of problems that you see.
David Stott: So it is very similar to that. And um, I would say that the checklist aspect of it, for sure, the software program that that I use, and I’m sure that other home inspectors use as well, it’s very checklist driven. I mean, so when you show up at a house, you I mean, it’s kind of going down a checklist. There’s obvious things that, you know, anomalies that may show up that you they’re adding in, adding in. But by and large it is a checklist. Now I also view it as not too dissimilar from a battalion staff meeting where I as whatever staff officer in in I am presenting the information to the client or in a staff meeting would be, you know, a battalion commander and he is making the decision based on the information he’s receiving. So that client, that homeowner, hopefully soon to be homeowner, is getting this information. I’m staying partial to it. I’m not I’m not trying to sway them one way or the other. I’m giving them the best information that I can give them and allowing them to take that information and make that decision. Um, and the other thing, a lot of, a lot of the stuff that we do find, I also make the analogy of if you go to a first care or like a, like an emergency, you know, um, 24 hour care type facility, they may tell you that your shoulder is messed up, but they’re going to refer you to an orthopedist. Right? Same type of thing where we can see what the problem is. There may be a defect or an issue that needs to be addressed. And we’re going to refer that client to that specialist or that, that, that specific discipline to have them come out and look at it and hopefully repair it.
John Berry: And you have a network with those specialists or those disciplines.
David Stott: We do over time. Um, either us as the home inspectors or the realtors that that that client is working with, they do have that network. They they’ve got their people that they’ve used and, and trust and are willing to say I. I would recommend this person.
John Berry: So now let me ask you this because this is, you know, as a lawyer, I get this all the time, right? People can go online and get really bad information, whether it’s about their VA disability benefits or a personal injury, a car accident or a crime. And they and they go online, and they get misinformation and then they end up trying to do it themselves and they run into problems. I imagine that that’s fairly common in your industry as well, where someone who’s not a professional can download a checklist, but once they start going through it, it’s not whether you have the checklist and can check off the box, it’s whether you actually understand every single word in that checklist and whether, uh, you know, whether you can actually have the experience to determine whether that whether you can check the box or not. And I just be curious to hear whether that’s an issue in your industry as well, whether it’s the DIY of the internet, the internet experts, the keyboard warriors who, uh, the keyboard doctors, uh, the keyboard lawyers who go through. And unfortunately, because it’s very easy to get information, it is also very easy to get misinformation. So have you had to deal with that in your industry?
David Stott: Absolutely. And I think we see it on, on probably on both sides, whether we’re inspecting a house. And you can tell that that, um, an item within the house or a component within that house has been done by someone that does not have the experience or the or the knowledge to do that. Um, or um, we’ve run into people that want to want to purchase the house without going through a home inspection or they, you know, hey, my dad’s in construction, you know, or my, my brother in law is going to come over and look at it, and that’s great. I mean, as far as like they’ve obviously got some experience, but it goes back to the whole, um, you know, conversation with the experience that we bring and the knowledge that we bring as far as we are, we are not code inspectors, but we are our knowledge and our basis of pointing things out is based in building code. So when we see something, um, that it may look like it’s right, but we know that that’s not going to function the way it’s supposed to. So we can call that out. So yes, there is a lot of misinformation. Um, or people will say, well, I’m just going to use the home inspection that, that the previous client used four years ago on this house. A lot can change in four years.
John Berry: Well, you know, there’s people like me like, you know, I don’t know if you ever had to do all the personality tests. I don’t think the battalion command school, we had to do them all, like, uh, Kolbe A, PRINT, DISC, uh, Gallup StrengthsFinder. We had to do all of them. And, you know, I. And under the Kolbe, I’m a Kolbe A. I’m a quick start. Like, I want to go. I want to do it. And if you tell me you need an inspection, I’m like, look, man, I want the inspection of tomorrow or we’re not doing it. We’re gonna we’re going to move forward. Right? Because I see the opportunity, I’m going to make it work. I’m going to jump, and the net will appear for me. Uh, but that’s a dangerous thing when it’s a big investment, like a house. And have you had to unravel some, uh, some deals where maybe you had a client who jumped first without a net being present?
David Stott: Um, a few times, uh, just, I mean, the last example that I gave, as far as someone wanting to use a previous inspection, a client, young, young couple wanted to buy a house. Um, they wanted to use the home inspection that the seller had had purchased. Well, I recommended that I get it. It means someone someone’s got to come and do this again. It’s going to slow things down.
John Berry: Just time and money.
David Stott: Time and money. It’s gonna slow things down just a little bit. But I highly recommend it. And I and I get to the point where I’m like, I don’t care if you use me in our company, or if you go and find another home inspector to come out and do this, but I would recommend you do it. They ultimately came back and said, yeah, go ahead and we’ll have you do the inspection. Um, did the inspection came back and they made that decision based on the information that was provided to them, not to purchase the house. There was enough that was going on. They said, yeah, we this isn’t a good idea. They were one of those couples that that used me again for a second time. And we did end up. They ended up finding a house that worked for him. That was that was good. Um, so yes, there are there are times when it, uh. Yeah, you got to you got to order the inspection, then the inspections got to come out the, the benefit to us. And hopefully other guys are doing the same thing but benefit us. If you call and said, hey, I want this inspection done right now, we can have somebody there within 24 hours, if not faster, depending on where the location is, you’re going to get the report on the same day as well. So it’s we can make it very quick for you. We just need the heads up and the green light to do it. Yeah.
John Berry: I think that, you know, it’s a part of wisdom getting as I’ve gotten older. I used to think I could do everything on my own, and now I realized that I shouldn’t be doing anything on my own except for what I do best. Right? And that that is practiced law. So, you know, I had my first few houses. I would paint all the walls, do all the yard work, do everything. Uh, you know, my wife and I would clean everything. But now I started thinking, like, do I want to hire a lawyer who scrubs his own toilet? Right? Or do I want someone who will take that time to focus on the law and spend their valuable time getting better at what they’re doing? And so I found that, you know, in the past, I would, I would. When I was young and I had no money, it was all DIY. I tried to figure it out myself, but those were very expensive lessons when I did it wrong. When you try to do your own taxes, when you try to do your own home inspections, when you try to do these things that have huge financial risks attached to them. If you don’t have a professional, you are taking a huge risk and it’s an unnecessary risk. And yes, there’s a cost of a home inspection, there’s a cost of bringing a professional into anything, but the cost is greater when you do it on your own and you screw it up, it could be significantly greater.
David Stott: I mean, this was before I got into the industry of doing the home inspections. But if you go back to 2020, during the height of Covid, when houses were I mean, they were selling, I mean, within 30, 40 minutes of being listed, um, and talking with realtors that that I’ve had conversations with about that time frame, there was such a push. I mean, it goes on the market. I mean, there was a bidding war and it sold. No inspection, nothing. Um, and that could be a very poor investment, depending on what the issues that have now been discovered. Um, are so. Yes. And I’m not just saying this because it’s my industry that I’m part of, but I would highly recommend if you’re buying or selling a house to have a home inspection done. Even on the seller side, um, you do a home inspection on what they call a prelisting inspection. The inspector is going to come back with a report and give you an idea of some of the little things that maybe you can fix to help level that negotiation field. On the back side of that, some of the big things are still going to be there, but some of the little things that may be taken care of, it might help you as well on the on the selling side anyway.
John Berry: Right. So as a seller, you can see that all the things that are that are wrong, that you can fix. And you talked about during Covid how fast everything was moving. People wanted to buy. And there was there’s a lot of demand, especially out in the less populated parts of the country where people could be away from the pandemic. And so you’re out there and people are asking, hey, I need this done. I need this done now. And you’ve seen the cost of not getting it done, of not having the inspection. And it is one of those things where if you don’t pay for it now, you’re going to pay, you’re going to pay a lot later.
David Stott: And it’s a, it’s a yes, there is a cost to it, but it’s a very overall minimal cost in comparison to what that house, what you’re paying for that house over the course of its lifetime. So again, highly recommend both sides, but particularly if you’re buying a house to get a home inspection done.
John Berry: Now what about VA loans? Does any of that apply to they require an inspection. How does how does how does that work?
David Stott: So they do require um they do require inspection for the most part. And not being on the actual real estate side. Um, I don’t want to get into too many details and step on my own, you know, step on step on myself here. But they do require inspection. And there’s I think what I’ve run into is there’s been an inspection done. And then a VA inspection can also be done on top of that to make sure that everything is safe. They are. One thing I do know is they are a lot more, stringent might not be the right word, but they are definitely looking for some of those standards as opposed to maybe like a conventional loan, that they’re just making sure the house is, you know, worthy of being habitable, essentially. Um, but yeah, some of the things on, on a VA loan that that would not seem like a big deal could definitely be a deal breaker. So if it is a VA loan that’s been that’s taken place, make sure that you are getting an inspection done for sure. They’re probably going to require it anyway. But some of those little things are definitely going to slow the process down to get fixed.
John Berry: And I think that this is one of one of the great life lessons is that, you know, you don’t know what you don’t know. And even as leaders, when we start, we just didn’t know the things that we learned later that, wow, yeah, I really should have known that. And first time home buyer. Second time home buyer. Third time home buyer. We simply don’t know everything. We have to rely on professionals. So that being said, let’s transition now to your military lessons that helped you overcome some of these, some of the challenges of starting the business. What has helped you that you learned in the military that has helped you grow your business and succeed?
David Stott: I would say the number one skill from the military is not a hard skill. It’s not something that you learn in necessarily in school. It has been the resilience aspect that the military teaches us. You’re in the military, you’re going to you are going to get knocked down, you’re going to fail, you’re going to succeed. But it’s that ability to when you do fail to get back up, take those lessons learned and continue moving forward towards that, towards that objective or towards that goal. So that’s probably been the number one thing. Um, some of the other things that have been very crucial to, um, to, to, to this business, at least from, from our standpoint, are those, again, soft skills, the being on time. You know, one of our policies is, you know, if we’re late or if we tell you we’re going to be at 1:00 and we’re there at 1:01, your inspection is free. You know, we back plan to make sure that we’re there in plenty of time, plan for those contingencies that may happen along the way. Um, but we’re going to be we’re going to be prompt. We’re going to be on time, if not early. Um, the respect, you know, towards the client, um, just that ability to communicate with the client, get back to them. You know, if they send us a text message or an email, I’m getting back to them as soon as I possibly can. If I can’t get to it right away, if I’m hanging upside down in an attic or something, uh, I’ll let them know. Hey, give me give me 30 minutes. I’ll call you right back, or I’ll text you when I, when I, when I can. But at least they know that I receive their information and I’m getting back to them.
John Berry: It’s like being on the radio, right? You’re in the Humvee. You get the call, you better, you better pick up. Yep. Right. And the expectation is that you be hyper responsive. And that’s really how society is now, uh, the consumer expects an immediate response. And so this isn’t much different than the military where you had the demanding commander who you’d better be on the radio.
David Stott: Well, and you’d be I think you’d be surprised at how many clients that I’ve talked to that are almost shocked with the response time. As far as I’m really surprised you got back to us this this quickly. Um, we’ve called three other people, and they haven’t called back. You’re the first person that’s called back. Any of those types of responses are ones that we have received. And that’s and that’s just basic day to day life from the military. Um, so those soft skills, I think, have been at least in, in the transition from my world, in the military into this world. Those have been the translatable skills, those soft skills that that are just taught along the way and ingrained in service members across the board.
John Berry: I think the misconception, especially for civilians out there, is that we’re just a bunch of hard chargers, you know, barrel chested, steely eyed killers, and that we only know how to give directions and knife hand people. But the reality is, you know, especially as an officer, you have to learn how to work with your peers on staff. You have to learn how to when you’re deployed to work with the local population, you can’t just go in there heavy handed all the time. You have to develop those soft skills. And when you’re serving your customer, the customer in many ways is the commander.
David Stott: Absolutely. So when we’re dealing with clients or realtors and not and not all of them are, are like are they’re not sticklers or whatever, but you might run into maybe a little bit of an adversarial, maybe a little bit of friction as we’re presenting our information to them. And so some of it is I mean, you can’t be heavy handed. You don’t want to cause any more friction than the bad news may be that you’re already presenting to them. So some of it is that that verbal presentation, that verbal, um, those skills that you learned in talking with and just talking with um, senior officers or even just your peers in presentations or, um, developing the information that you are going to present to be able to, to get the point across without causing either undue stress, undue alarm, or just additional friction. So those skills that you may not seem that important, maybe at the time, they definitely translate and become very important on the other side of that military transition into whatever aspect of the civilian world you’re going into, because it’s very impressive for people who aren’t used to dealing with that or seeing that, it’s like, wow, that’s this person really does care about what they’re doing.
John Berry: So tell me this. You’ve obviously used some of those skills that have helped you. What are the goals for your business? What’s the bigger future that you plan for your company?
David Stott: So right now we do. We cover, um, the entire state of Nebraska if we have to. I’ve been as far west as Scottsbluff and as far east as Crete. Um, and then, you know, pretty much from the north to south border and everywhere in between, that’s just one person. And then recently, with the addition of Bo, two of us now. But what I would like to see happen is a greater either presence or preference in the central Nebraska area. Um, and then if, if it, if it’s feasible, um, you know, five, ten years from now be able to have representatives in some of those outlying, you know, further away areas that that could represent Guardian Home Inspection because it’s very easy. It’s it would be very easy to scale this and put that into someone’s hand because it’s essentially them working as, as an independent individual. Um, without a lot of oversight. So it would take the right person with the right mentality. But it’s definitely doable to be able to expand outward.
John Berry: So you have the systems in place. You obviously understand what the culture that you want. So how are you going to find that person that’s going to help you scale? Are those people that are going to help you scale because it sounds like you find somebody, you’re going to say, this is your AO, this is your Area of Operation. I’m you’ve got all the tools. Go get it. And for me, that’s like, that’s my dream, right? But for a lot of people that they get intimidated. And you have to decide, is this someone who can handle it? Is this someone you’re going to trust your brand name with? That’s. And you give them your systems and then you’re going to send them out, you know, to another to another state. And they may, you know, they may run off with your information. They may do a terrible job and ruin your reputation. Uh, how are you going to decide who you’re going to hire?
David Stott: So that’s, I think, the biggest thing. And one of the things that I did when I brought, when I brought Bo in into the fold, it was a situation where I trusted Bo. Um, he was he was an NCO that I had worked with in the military for, for several years. Um, I knew that without he can operate without supervision, without necessarily, uh, me telling him every, every single minute of what, what or how to do it. He, he gets the job done. So there was already that trust established with, with him. Um, you know, as far as bringing somebody else in, it would be that I think you brought it up. The lucky general. Yeah.
John Berry: My other podcast. Yeah.
David Stott: The lucky, lucky general. Um, but having that person who is who believes in the same, the same core values as our company, someone who is, who wants to succeed, um, who, who has developed not only trust in us, but us in them and is a self-starter, self-sufficient, and wants to win.
John Berry: Yeah. And just for the listeners that have not tuned into the Lucky General episode, uh, please check it out. But essentially, just so just for context, the lucky general is that individual that has already done what you want to do and is a proven leader. And this goes back to Napoleon Bonaparte when Napoleon was winning his wars, the critics said, well, you’re it wasn’t due to skill or strategy. You just had lucky generals, right? And then a century later, Eisenhower said, I’d rather have a lucky general. They win wars. So, you know, in my mind, the lucky general is the person. Number one is the person who has done what you’re going to do is a proven leader. But on the other hand, is not someone who’s unlucky because unlucky people aren’t on time. Unlucky people don’t do thorough inspections. Unlucky people blame all of their problems in life on somebody else. And so yeah, maybe they are unlucky, but they’re unlucky for a reason. They’re unlucky because they lack accountability, they lack drive, they lack determination. And you can’t trust them because you can’t trust luck. But if you have a lucky general, you know that they will never attribute their success to luck. They will attribute their success to the team, the conditions on the battlefield to the strategy, to the great leadership, to the host nation. But they will never say we won because of luck, and they will never blame luck for losing.
David Stott: Correct. And you brought up a good point with the thorough inspections and the experience. So truth, you know, truth in advertising. I had no home inspection experience when I started this, but it was those skills from not only the military but law enforcement. Um, the thoroughness, the attention to detail that really translated. So I’m, I would not necessarily be looking for a previous home inspector or even a previous contractor, but someone who has that attention to detail. Um, and I joke with realtors when I go and give presentations this you doing a home inspection as far as that checklist aspect of it, or as, as far as that attention to detail isn’t that much different than when I used to do search warrants. I’m just looking for different things, you know? And hopefully I’m not finding the same things that, uh, that I used to find. But, but to that point, it is it’s very it’s a very systematic, very thorough. Action, just like a search warrant and documenting what you find, just like law enforcement or the military. We’re documenting, we’re putting we’re putting clear, concise information down and then presenting it to the to the client. So yes, someone with those types of attributes and that type of drive could easily step in and, and scale this and be a very decentralized system.
John Berry: And full disclosure to our listeners, back before I even knew that you were in the military, it was probably 15 years ago. I was I had a case out in Kearney, Nebraska, a trial, and I cross-examined you, and I was trying to break you on the stand, trying to catch you in a lie, trying to catch you in an inconsistency. And of course, you stood your ground, and you did a phenomenal job testifying. I appreciate it. And then later, uh, you know, you worked for me as a TAC officer, and it was the same level of attention to detail, honesty, thoroughness. And I’ll just tell you, as a lawyer, when I get someone on the stand and they’re being a little bit deceptive, that’s my field day, right? That’s where I can really go after. But when someone is being straightforward and honest and answering the question and even conceding the things they did wrong, that’s a very tough cross-examination for me. That makes my job really tough, because when you’re being truthful and honest and the judge and the jury see that, and I’m trying to beat you up and everything, and you screwed something up and you say, yeah, I screwed that up.
John Berry: That just builds your credibility as opposed to, you know, some witnesses will lie and say, no, I did that right. And then I say, oh, really? Well, let’s talk about that then. Then I just they keep digging deeper and then and then they just bleed out with a thousand. They, it’s like a thousand paper cuts. They just, they just bleed out on the witness stand. And by the time I’m done, they have zero credibility. But you maintain your credibility. And of course, the jury liked you because you’re a Marine. But the important thing was you told the truth, and you admitted when you made mistakes. And that only built your credibility. And I found that that is also true in business. We all make mistakes. Absolutely. And if we can tell our clients or our customers, hey, you know what? We didn’t do this to standard, not to our maybe, you know, maybe the competitors probably think this is the standard, but it’s not our standard. And we want to let you know that we’re going to make this right. And I don’t know how you feel about that, but I’ve always been straightforward about that.
David Stott: Absolutely. And going back to your point with, with the in the courtroom, um, you must have caught me a little bit after I’d already learned my lesson about that, because right out of the gate, as a new officer, I, I could be very combative on the stand, or it became it was very adversarial. But as I learned my lesson, it absolutely. If you just exactly what happened. Yep. I forgot to put that in the report, or I didn’t put that in there or I or. Nope. This is this is why I made the stop and not to, uh, not to go against or talk about your tactics, but it was it really did it kind of shut things down. Um, where like before, when I was on the more adversarial side, all of a sudden it was just like you said. I mean, the doors came off, and then you’re just sitting there sweating. So, yeah, once you learn that, like, you don’t have to I mean, just tell the truth up there and same thing going to going back to this, this part of it. Yeah. There’s times where um, just uh, a boring example. But, you know, you go to a house and maybe the attic isn’t accessible. Now, we do go in the attics. Um, if it’s, if it’s insulation is covering the, the trusses or the or the rafters, we won’t cross into that just because we don’t want to give someone a skylight they didn’t ask for.
David Stott: But we will do our best to get as much inspected as we can, but if there’s something blocking or it’s unsafe to do so, we will let the client know. And the realtor knows that, hey, this is what’s going on. We’re more than happy to come back. If you know the, the seller or the seller’s representative can move this for us. We don’t want to move stuff because we don’t want break it. You know, that really is the is the gist of that. It’s not because we’re being lazy. But if there’s something in the way, something that’s valuable, I don’t want to take a chance of damaging that property. I’m sure that the client doesn’t want their stuff broken, even if it is an accident. So we’ll let them move it. And once it’s moved, I have no problem going back to a house that we’ve already done. Um, and in fact, we’ve done it several times. If we can’t, if we can’t get something, we’ll let them know that. Yep. Like you said, this is not to our standard. Um, we’d be happy to come back and take a look at it again.
John Berry: Since starting this business. Now that you’re at about a year, what help have you received from the veteran community outside the VA, or have you reached out to anybody for business advice or help or marketing or collaborations?
David Stott: Um, as far as, um, like the overall the big veteran community, like the VA or anything like that, when I went through my retirement process, there was an opportunity to go to a Boots to Business program that was on Fort Riley. Um, schedules didn’t work out and I wasn’t able to make it to that one. I would have loved to have gone to that. It may still be something that we can take part in, I don’t know. Um, but as far as the veteran community, it’s been great. The veteran community as a whole has been great. And we and we do, um, repay that. If you’re a veteran or a first responder, we do a 10% discount. Um, and we also donate to, to veteran charities as well.
John Berry: And that’s one of the things, you know, I think is really important in the veteran community is we want to do business with other veterans because we know, like, and trust veterans. And we there’s a shared value system there. And generally speaking, now, now there are dirt bags in any in any in any groups. Right. And but generally speaking, when we work with other veterans, we find that just the level of connection is, is so much better that the communication is better. Uh, the expectations are built, are more realistic, and we feel like we’re working with, with our heroes. So we really don’t want to let you down. And when I’m working with a veteran, I know that I’m working with someone who raised their hand and swore to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, made that sacrifice. And I and I want to make sure that I’m protecting my veteran clients. I want to make sure that they feel like I am giving them the service that they earned by serving our country. I want to make sure that I’m giving back, because the reality is, there is no way we can repay the veterans who made that sacrifice.
John Berry: And I know you have you have a wife; you have four kids. When you were serving. This is not easy being a parent, being away from home. And then you came back, and you started your own company. This is why this episode is so important to me. On Veteran Led because I’ve got a lot of people that have, they’ve been in business for 20 years plus after service and they forget how hard it is. But you know, you’re fresh in the start over block, right? The, the I don’t want to say you got a no-go, but it is it is like showing up being a second lieutenant again all of a sudden. Now it’s like you’re you don’t know what you don’t know and no one’s telling you how to do it, what to do. And my question to you is where do you get the drive to keep doing it? Because no one really wants to be a second lieutenant again. But now you’re learning everything and you’re taking the hard knocks again. Where does that drive, that resilience come from?
David Stott: So and I’ll answer that. And then I did want to bring up something as far as the mistakes that I’ve made along the way too. But so I actually had a realtor ask me one time because I was fresh out of the gate going into this job or in this career field, and it was all in, I mean, I, I put a wrap on my truck, um, went for the went for the packages as far as the things that I could offer clients that no one else was doing. Um, it was it was an all in mentality. And the real estate agent had asked me, well, we’re basically the same question you just asked as far as where that drive comes from. And it really comes down to a no fail mentality. Um, or failure is not an option. Um, this is this is what I have done and the setbacks that will inevitably come that that already have come. Um, it’s that ability to say, okay, this is what I’ve learned from it. Um, this is this is where I met that resistance or that friction. How do I get around it or what do I need to improve on? Or services can I offer that are that are better suited for the client and that ability just to say, this isn’t the end of the world, um, this is just a roadblock and to keep moving forward because and that that really does come from the military. I mean, you know it as well as I do that, that you constantly run into conflict, constantly run into setbacks, and whether that is career related or just mission related, but you still have to accomplish that mission. Um, and so to just to throw in the towel, it’s not an option. And that’s why I wanted that all in mentality. Because it kind of gives you that, okay. I don’t really have another option.
John Berry: Burn the bridges, burn the ships.
David Stott: I’m going to win. Uh, or and maybe win is not the right word. It is. And it isn’t. I’m going to succeed. I’m going to meet the goals that I’ve set for myself, overcoming challenges along the way. Um, but that was one of those things going back to the beginning, um, with. Issues or with, um, unforeseen things that happen and that other veterans might run into if they’re starting their own business. Um, lessons learned. The minute you the minute that you submit and receive your LLC or whatever you’re doing, um, it seems like the phone starts ringing. You know, all these people are, you know, hey, we got we got your number. You know, we’d love to run an advertisement for you, right? Well, guess who fell for a lot of those, you know?
John Berry: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All the all the marketing. Oh yeah.
David Stott: All the, all the golf courses. And in central Nebraska have, I think a picture of our company in there, you know, scorebooks.
John Berry: And were you able to chat, were you able to track the return on investment.
David Stott: Well that’s what that’s what I was going to go with it. Uh, the return has been zero, you know, um, and I mean, at least to my knowledge. Now, someone may have seen it and called us, but I no one has said, hey, I saw your ad in, you know, the Gibbon Golf Course scorecard or Awarii Dunes, or, you know, any of those places that we were. I’ve never heard anybody say, that’s where they saw us. Um, it really has been. And so that’s what I would so I would tell as far as advice to other veterans, don’t fall for all the like the marketing stuff. It’s kind of like a baby rattlesnake. You get so excited that you’re, you know, you can’t control it. Like, this is this is the greatest idea ever. Everyone’s going to love it. And then nothing. And you spend all.
John Berry: Your venom is gone. All your venom.
David Stott: And venom, in that case, is the money, right? Right. Yeah. Um. And so.
John Berry: So don’t. Yeah. Here, here’s the lesson. Right. When you’re starting off, direct response marketing is the way to go. You have to be able to track it. Look like right now I’ve got a lot of billboards I’ve got, you know, all the all the marketing that is would be called branding or advertising. But the reality is, when you’re starting off, you really want that direct response, something you can track, and you can do that on social media. You know, you can do it on pay per click, search engine optimization. There are some tools you can use out there, but you build your website and there are certain things you can track even direct mailers where you have a at a specific phone number on that, so you can track it back to the mailers. But whatever advertising you’re doing, uh, yeah, I when you start off direct response, you got to be able to track it because you’re right. If you throw your name out there and nobody knows who you are, it doesn’t matter. Now, once you nail direct response and you start getting a bunch of leads and, and you’re building a client base and it’s big enough that you realize, hey, I’m starting to Tap out here like, I think I think I’ve hit my max or bottom. I’ve hit my max. I’m bottoming out here. I can’t get any more clients from the direct response.
John Berry: Now it’s time to go branding and go bigger. And what I found is the branding doesn’t necessarily bring you new people. In fact, it’s more of the same people. When I started doing the TV and the billboards and the radio, I would get calls from people who already knew me, but I was top of mind for them, and that was the difference. They already knew who I was. They knew what I did. They’re like, yeah, you know, I haven’t talked to you for like ten years. John, how are things going? I saw your I saw your billboard and I wanted to reach out to you so those things can help. But they’re not a day one right strategy. They’re more. When you hit the seven figures. Eight figures, and you and you and you and you’re starting to plateau, and you realize, like, you know, I need more opportunities. So I’ve also talked to a lot of professionals who say, you know what, I do all digital, I do all direct response, and I will never do branding. I will never do the traditional advertising because my ROI continues to grow, because I’m so dialed in and I’m keeping track of all my metrics. I know it works. I’m A/B testing everything, and that’s great. You know, if it works for you, it works for you. But I the mistake you made, I you know, I fell for that early on too, where it’s like, yeah, I’m a bunch of, uh, branding. Well, nobody cares what your brand are until they know who you are and what you do.
David Stott: And that’s. And that has been absolutely spot on. The one thing as far as other veterans that are starting out, um, what I would what I would consider is making sure that if you if it’s a, if it’s a business that you’re doing that has the necessity for a website, make sure you invest in a good website. Because to your point earlier that digital investigation that people that people will look into see who you are. A good squared away, clean website makes a huge difference. Um, but then that that SEO or those Google reviews are huge. I’ve had more people say that, hey, you know, I typed in, you know, home inspection near me or home inspection. Kearney, Nebraska, whatever the case might be. And they see the Google reviews and they read those. And that has been where, you know, the money has been made more so than any advertising or any, you know, one liked Facebook post that people just scroll right by.
John Berry: So it is your online reputation. Yep. And you have to protect it. And you know, you have to if you want anything in life, whether it’s a review or a referral, you have to ask for it. And I like to tell you, I tell clients, look, I want to provide you a five star experience. And if at any time we’re failing to do that, let me know, because that that feedback helps me build a better company, build a better team, and address those issues. Because most of the people who are dissatisfied with your performance are going to tell you. But if you’re upfront about it and say, look, I really would appreciate the feedback and I’m receptive to it, they’re much more likely to actually tell you when you’re not meeting their expectations.
David Stott: Absolutely. And it also, I mean, like that’s exactly right to be able to and also to be able to see that and to for someone to see that, yes, there are people who have reviewed this and there’s a response. There’s a response as far as an action that is or will be taken to either fix it or to improve on it or to continue doing what they’re doing. It’s real. And clients that are that are investigating, trying to figure out if this is the company they want to look, that may be the first thing they see, and they start looking at the website and then they give us a call. Um, so yeah, those have been those have been the moneymakers, more so than any of the other crazy advertising stuff that I tried early on. Um, that was just one of the pitfalls along the way. But, uh.
John Berry: Yeah, you know, it, it’s the social proof from, from real people. And I’ve noticed, you know, you can do that for every, every part of your business, you know, from the, from the, you know, the intake or sales team all the way through, you know, the individuals who are servicing your clients, um, to the, the bookkeeping and accounting piece. You know, I’ve had this where, where I’ll just give you an example. I lawyer did a phenomenal job, you know, pulled off a miracle for a client. And then because the billing was screwed up, the client was upset. Right. And so it was like, this is horrible service, you know, and it’s and they’re mad because the billing was wrong. And but you know, I got to own that. And then the problem is, you know I as the leader have to go back to that lawyer and say you did a phenomenal job, and you should be getting referrals from this. But, you know, I, as the leader, failed to ensure that the finance team was sending out timely, accurately, timely and accurate bills. And, you know, and that’s the problem. And so, uh, it’s on me as the leader to ensure that happens because we’ve had it happen where the lawyer gets a great result and then we fail to get the bill out for 2 to 3 months. And the client said, well, I didn’t even know I owed anything. And it’s so it’s just one of those things that is frustrating, especially for the team member who really went all in. And then they’re like, you know, they’re expecting a five star review. They’re expecting referrals because they did a phenomenal job. And then me as the leader didn’t make sure that that other system was working properly. And now one of my team members is getting dinged because of it. And that’s a that’s a tough thing to deal with as a leader.
David Stott: And that was one of the lessons that I learned. Um, in terms of that feedback and being able to action it, something that I didn’t even see, um, I had got. An email review from a client who I’d done the inspection for, and they ultimately walked away from the house because there were so many issues from it. Um, and thinking, hey, this is a great deal. The problem is, is that my back office suite that I have that’s geared towards a little bit of marketing, but also follow up. Um, and then offering some of the things that we offer as ancillary items. I had it turned way up. And so this person, it must have been there that like dream house because they were furious that I was following up like every, you know, the first one comes like three days and then another one at ten days. And they, they lit me up. I mean, this is this was the worst experience ever. Stop emailing me. And I was like, whoa, I haven’t even. So I had to go back and look at my like back office. I’m like, okay, I need to turn this down because I know me as a client. I probably wouldn’t want to just get bombarded with junk either. So I turned that down at that point. That was early on. So again, just one of those things to learn from and to help make that client experience better. So those mistakes we kind of talked about the learning lessons, the moving forward. The resilience piece comes from being able to take it, take a look at what you’re doing, whether it’s right or wrong, if you’re failing, if you’re falling down, how do you pick yourself back up? Take a look at yourself and saying, okay, I messed up. I messed this up. Even though I thought it was a great idea. How do I change that? Because it’s not about me. It’s about servicing the client.
John Berry: I love that example because the client experience experts are telling you need to get more touches with your client. You need to be more in touch. You need to send them emails and text messages. And look, I love that one. You know, I’ve got a, like a medical appointment and I get a text message a week before the day of. I appreciate that because I have so much going on that, you know, even if it’s on my calendar, I may I may forget about it. So I like the refreshers, but there’s a tipping point, and the people who want to sell you the product will tell you, oh no, you need this product that’s going to, you know, this client, the CRM tool, the client relationship management tool that’s going to make sure that that you stay in touch and then what’s going to happen is they’re going to have such a great experience. They’re going to refer a bunch of more business to you. And they’re going to you’re going to be taken care of, and you won’t even have to do anything because it’s all automated. Right? And that’s the biggest lie, because the reality is, even if you automate it, you have to check it to make sure it’s working.
John Berry: And then you have to gauge the amount of risk you want to take in overcommunicating with your clients. Yeah. Look, I’ve had clients who say, you know, who really want me to be hyper communicative. Then I have other clients that say, you know what? Every time I think about my case, it gives me anxiety. So I don’t want to talk to you. I’m paying you to solve the problem. Don’t call me. Don’t send me letters. Let me know when it’s done. Let me know what I need to do. But just don’t bother me. And you know what? I respect those clients because they’re like, hey, you’re the professional. I’m paying you. You don’t need to keep communicating with me. But then, on the other hand, I’ve also had experiences where someone has an expectation, they’re going to call every single day. And it’s tough to manage that because everybody’s different. And so you have to say, what are the standards that I’m going to set as a business owner, and how am I going to communicate those standards to my client? And then how am I going to maintain that accountability to ensure that I achieve those standards?
David Stott: Absolutely. And that was my enlightening moment, I guess because I thought everything was going smooth. And maybe there was other clients who were having the same thoughts of this is this is ridiculous. I don’t need to hear from your company every three days or every week. Um, I mean, I’m I’ll be the first to say, like, I get it, it’s a home inspection company. Um, it’s not. It’s not the, uh, you know, whatever Fortune 500. It’s not. This is something that is a very pinpointed item needed at a at a specific time in, in space. Um, it’s not it’s not something that people probably want to think about every day unless it’s affecting them right now. So yes, I don’t I had to take a step back and say, if I was the client, what would I want? Yes, we do have reminders set up. So that comes on the front side, but on the back side I had to turn that down because I know that me as a client, if I was a client, I wouldn’t want every time I open my email or every time I open my text message that, okay, I don’t care anymore, dude. Like just just stop. So I had to say, okay, what would be appropriate for me and kind of find that kind of find that medium because I’m, I’m more on the camp of like, leave me alone. But I but I know there’s people who do want. So it’s just a little bit kind of in the middle there. But yeah, it was it was a lesson learned. And I responded back, said, hey, thanks for the thanks for the feedback. Um, we’ll make adjustments to make sure that that future clients aren’t, aren’t feeling the same way you are.
John Berry: So and feedback is a gift, and we know that and but I do think that’s such a tough tightrope to walk because in your industry, that home purchase may be the biggest investment this person’s ever made in their life. And they are anxious about it, and they want that information. And so you want to make sure that you’re communicating with them enough that they feel like they’re a priority to you. Um, but on the other hand, you know, yeah, you don’t want to drown them in information.
David Stott: Yeah. And that’s because I think we were talking about it before we started rolling. But, you know, I mean, some of the serious Facebook posts that we post and we and we’ve had a decent following on our Facebook page, but if we post something serious or some of the, uh, some of the items that we offer, you may have one person, you can see the engagement, you can see what people are looking at, but people are going by it. You might get one like, but it’s the ones that we’ve come up with some, you know, found or stolen, some funny meme, you know, related to home inspection industry or, you know, a picture of us doing something, you know, goofy. Those are the ones that people like, you know. So yeah, it’s that having the ability to stay on top of somebody’s mind and in front of their thought process, but not bombarding them with just another sales pitch. Because I don’t think people I think people are tired of the, the constant sales pitches. And, and so I try to I try to try to eliminate that as much as I can.
John Berry: Yeah, and that’s the tough thing on social media. You got to give the people what they want. And the reality is, a cringe worthy video about home inspections may go viral, right? It’s probably bad, but if you provide a great educational piece.
David Stott: I probably do that too.
John Berry: Yeah, but if you provide a great educational piece, most people don’t want that. They’re like, what are you doing in my feed? I don’t care about home inspections. Yeah, well, I guess, you know, but now Facebook can listen to you, and they can jump on. Yeah. And all of a sudden now you’re in their feed. But the point is, you know, you have to give them what they want on social media, people want to be social. And so what I’ve as you probably know, if you have a company Facebook page or whatever social media page it is, the ROI on organic traffic is garbage because they figured out that that they can make a lot of money if they make you pay for it. But your personal contacts, the people that already know, like and trust David Stott are more interested in what David’s doing. We’ll think about Guardian Home Inspection when they think about David, they don’t care about what’s on the Guardian Home Inspection page. Now I will tell you, you still need to have a business page because it’s like you said, as a cop, you’re investigating people, and the consumers are investigating us. So they want to see. Does David Stott have a page? Does Guardian Home Inspections have a page?
David Stott: Is there traffic? Is there movement? Is it something that is current? Um, absolutely.
John Berry: And that’s just, you know, that’s just that’s just part of it. So I think it’s one of the things where we have to do it and try not to be annoying. Yep.
David Stott: That’s the yeah, that’s the challenge is being active but not being annoying and finding the content to get people to, to come into that, that community or into your, into your business.
John Berry: Yeah. And I think it was Seth Godin who said, “Good advertising gets people to look, great advertising gets people to stop and stare.” And I believe the one step up is if you can get people to talk about it right now, all of a sudden, you’re taking up space in their brain rent free, because they’re talking about the advertising. And even if they’re making fun of you. And some people have done this great. I’m not, you know, a big fan. I’ve seen self-deprecating humor go wrong, go very wrong. But there’s something to be said for a little bit of vulnerability and honesty. And when you’re trying to communicate with potential clients where they can say, yeah, like, this is a real guy, right? This is a real person. And I think that that, that, that can make all the difference. So let’s move on to the After Action Review. This is where we talk about leadership. What I want to hear about is your three best examples of leadership. Either that you that you personally exhibited or that you saw from another leader, uh, civilian or military. What are those top three?
David Stott: Going all the way back to Marine Corps boot camp, I had a drill instructor who broke it down to us and said, it doesn’t matter what your rank is. Um, you could be you could be the most senior person in the room, but that does not mean that you’re the smartest person in the room. So he gave us that ability to understand being humble or being able to take information or take input or become a follower maybe in some cases to someone who is junior or someone who may not be or may be less experienced, but that private might come in with more life experience in that one particular area, and he might have the best idea in the room. He might be the newest guy there. That was the point of that was like, don’t, don’t shut down people who may not be, um, to your same level, whether it’s seniority or rank, be open to all ideas. So that was probably the very first example of good leadership that I had. Um, the second one I would say is leaders who have, um, really focused on mentorship, uh, in the realm of leadership, um, to develop their subordinates. And this and I say this genuinely, this has nothing to do with the fact that I’m on your podcast, but I’ve in discussions with other people.
David Stott: You have been one of the most influential leaders in my military career and genuine and that’s being genuine. Um, one of the things that you did so well as the TAC battalion commander, or the OCS battalion commander was you. You mentored us as TACs, um, and you and you provided that that leadership, not only example but the ability to learn leadership as we were going, especially at a crucial stage in our careers as maybe senior lieutenants or younger captains. Um, so that was that was a that was a crucial moment as far as good leadership for me. So, so thank you for that. Um, and then I would say the third example of good leadership that I’ve had in the military are the leaders who are not micromanaging. Um, and I understand that that comes with a level of trust. You know, if you can trust your people and you know that what they’re capable of doing, um, you know that, hey, this is the mission. Make it happen. Um, knowing that there are people are going to get things done because then it goes back uphill, too, because, you know, that person trusts you, so you don’t want to let them down. So those have those have been the three examples of leadership that that have really stuck with me as far as positives.
John Berry: Well, I appreciate the compliments. I have to be brutally honest about that. You know, I found it easier in the military to be that mentoring leader because the military was forgiving in a training environment. Right? I mean, for downrange, if we’re on a deployment, then I’m not going to let the captain do something stupid. But if I’m mentoring a captain on the Army’s dime, right, and we’re doing a training exercise, I have the luxury of saying, hey, captain, you sure you want to do that? And I have the luxury of talking to him as we walk to the chow hall and, nonconfrontational way, but it’s a much more as a mentoring, uh, mentoring environment. And the military can be such a mentoring and nurturing environment. And it’s so tough in the civilian world when there are real dollars on the line, your reputation and the mistakes, the mistakes can cost you everything. It’s tougher to be that. And that’s where I have really struggled as a mentor. So I’m glad you got to see me when, uh, when I, when I was good at it.
John Berry: But it’s one of those areas where I struggle every single day to be that calm, patient, mature leader. Because, man, I’m a fireball. I want to go in there, I want to win. And it’s tough to slow it down. And when, when, when I have like when you were a young captain, I was able to say, okay, let’s really talk about where you want to be in life and let’s talk about why these leadership lessons matter. Let’s talk about how you’re going to get there. And I can shut up and listen to the questions. But as a business owner, like half the time I know the answer already. And I’m so impatient. I’m like, okay, look, we’re not going to spend 30 minutes while you figure it out. I’m going to tell you what needs to happen. And that is where I have failed time and time again. So it’s refreshing to hear that. But I can tell you that is me in one context. I’m not as good at that as a as a civilian leader.
David Stott: Well, you know, I remember back to those days as a TAC when we would come to you and say, hey, we’ve got this great idea, this is what we want to do with the candidates. And you would sit back, and you would evaluate it and be like, yeah, go for it, you know? And then we could always come back later and say, well, was it effective or not? But there was there was a lot of latitude as far as the left and right limits within, within the, you know, the SOP of that program that you were able to provide to us to not only develop ourselves but develop those candidates who we were instructing and or, you know, leading on that cadre side. So, so, yeah, you know, that that was huge. And I’m not just speaking for me. I know in talking with the others that were there at the same time and even the candidates that were there at the same time, you were very influential in, in all of our military careers and our personal lives as well. So, so again, thank you.
John Berry: Well, thank you for that. And I wish I could be the same way on the business side.
John Berry: I will tell you, the best leaders in my organization are the ones that I have the least communication with because I’m like, hey, go do it. Go do your mission. I trust you if you need help, I’m here. But and those are the leaders that I loved, right? The ones who say, John, here’s a mission. Go do it. If you need anything, come find me. Because, like, let me go, man. Just let me run free and let me solve the problem. And the best leaders do that. And obviously that’s what you did when you, when you, when you were on my team, was it you figured it out.
David Stott: But then to your point right there that that last that last bullet with when you have those people, your subordinates now and then you as, as far as your preferred style of just going, you didn’t want to let that person down. And I know that for me too, I love it when they’re like, this is the job, just go do it. Because at that point, I have the freedom to make things happen without having to constantly go back and forth for permission or for, you know, there’s touch points along the way. Right. But that freedom I don’t want to let that, you know, you as a boss, I don’t want to let you down. I’m sure your subordinate the same way. Like, hey, cool. He’s letting us do our job. I’m not going to let him down. So, I mean, that’s a sign of a of a good leader. Um, as far as that, trust both up and down the chain of command.
John Berry: Well, now we’ve talked about three up. Now let’s talk about the three bad examples of leadership.
David Stott: Um, I would say I would say the number one is probably either well probably close between number one and number two. But micromanaging um, that and I think most people, whether it’s military or civilian world is that is that’s drives me nuts. Um, it’s just that inability to get anything done or, um, when you do get something done and it’s done to standard, it’s done or it’s or it’s done at least. Right. But someone constantly over shoulder telling me that you didn’t do it right. You know, it’s. And if you didn’t do it right, you didn’t do it right, I get that, but when the mission is accomplished. But they’re just constantly sharpshooting you, there’s an issue with that.
John Berry: Now that’s my wife. And let me tell you something. I’ve tried and I’ve tried about ten cases with her, and we’ve won nine out of the ten jury trials and working together, she’s phenomenal. She’s brilliant. But for me, winning solves all problems. So we win, we get the verdict. We’re happy. And she’s still mad about the other. Now we still have the after action review. And we say these things went well. These things that went wrong. This is what we could have done better. But she’s still fired up about those things. And I’m like, you know what? Celebrate the win. Take a couple minutes to breathe it in and then let’s you know. But she is like, no, I want more accountability. I want this, I want this. And I’m like, wow. Like so she is she’s a bit of a micromanager, but I can tell you that’s what makes her so good. She is so obsessed with all the details, and you need people like that in your organization. But for me, winning solves most of the problems and I can let go.
John Berry: But I think for some leaders, it is the micromanagement piece that holds them back from being great leaders. And if you run a company, the whole goal, the end state is letting go of things like at the end of the day, right? All I want to do is the things that I’m best at. So I want to turn over every single piece. I want to turn over the sales piece, the marketing piece, the logistics piece, the finance piece, most of the operations pieces. I just want to do the things that I think I’m really good at. And as a leader, it’s really tough to let go. And that’s where micromanagement comes in, is we’re so as leaders, we’re responsible for everything, and it’s so tough to hand over the responsibility to somebody else. But we learn when we have great NCOs, a great first sergeant or great platoon sergeant, you just let them run and they tell you, hey, sir, go get a haircut. Hey, sir, I got this. And you just say, Roger, Sergeant. And you, you get out of their way.
David Stott: And there has been times um, and luckily I and hopefully, hopefully others would, would see it the same way I did. I tried my, my best not to have micromanagement in my leadership style. I didn’t like it, so I didn’t want to put anybody else through that. But I could see it from others, um, you know, looking at somebody else or even when being in close proximity to it. And then you start getting that, that pushback or that friction, especially like from the NCOs that are I mean, these guys are the experts or your staff officers who are who are the not maybe not staff officers, but the staff, you know, sections, they are the ones who are who are who are proficient in this. They’re used to it. They’re experienced in it. But you got somebody who’s telling them like, this is how you do it. This is what it says. Yeah. I mean, yes and no. But you know how it goes. I mean, there’s the book answer and then there’s the real world answer. So we got to get this done. This is we’re still going to get it done to standard. So you run into that pushback, especially like those experts with the NCOs that they know what they’re doing. So get out of their way and let them let them accomplish the mission. And they’re going to they’re not going to let you down because they don’t want to lose. So, you know, it’s just it’s a win situation for everybody.
John Berry: And I’ll just tell you, I have really struggled to mentor some of those micromanagers. I had a micromanager that always had to be right about everything. And, you know, there’s no saying you want to be rich, or do you want to be right? You know, and in marriage, do you want to be happy, or do you want to be right? And this this leader would, you know, say, well, this is the answer. And it was always so confident about the answer but was wrong half the time and lost all credibility with the subordinate leaders because this leader was so such a micromanager that she just had to be right.
John Berry: Had to be right every single and a lot of times she was wrong. And, you know, her subordinates then would go look it up and say, actually, you’re wrong. And then that leader couldn’t accept, here’s the papers. Here’s the here’s, you know, here’s the law, here’s the statute in black and white. And they wouldn’t accept. Well, that’s not you know. And I was like, okay. You know, and having to talk to that leader and saying, look, you know, being a leader doesn’t mean being right all the time. Being a leader means getting to the right answer. And usually it’s to facilitate that. Not for you to find it. And you need to facilitate your team members getting the right answer, not you.
David Stott: And that would be that would be a good one to add as far as a description into those, into the good leader style, the facilitator. And that’s a great way to put that is the facilitator is the ones that can really capitalize on the strengths of their entire team to get things done and kind of put their ego in check and, and, and just let the victory happen. Um, so yeah, that’s a great I should have added that one in there too. So that’ll be tied for some someplace in there.
John Berry: Okay. So two more bad leaders, two more bad leadership examples.
David Stott: I guess egomaniacs. Uh, what I would say probably right up there as well. The folks that that can’t accept kind of like a counterpoint to my first one that can’t accept that, that there are people within the organization who may be smarter than them. Uh, who may have different life experiences that can help, you know, facilitate that. They don’t I mean, they can’t even be bothered to be talked to by somebody in a lower grade or a lower position within that organization. And I think they’re missing out on, on a lot of not only learning lessons, but ideas. So and I ran into a few of those over, over my course of my military and police career. Um, I’m sure you have too, that, you know, if people just get out of their own way sometimes and, you know, just take everything in that’s around them. Um, it would help the organization as well as themselves, as leaders.
John Berry: Last one.
David Stott: Oh, let’s see, the last one, I would say, are leaders and understand that that leaders may not be the subject matter experts. Or they may not know everything that’s going on within their company, but they have those people that are there for that. Um, the leaders, the third one I would say are the are the are the leaders who are not invested or are incompetent might be the right word, and they just don’t want to take the time to either understand or ask the questions to learn, because those questions are going to allow them to, uh, you know, make those make those decisions. They don’t have to know everything about, you know, if we’re using a military example, you don’t have to know everything about personnel. But when your S1 officer is telling you what’s going on, either ask the question to get more of an answer, or maybe go and figure stuff out on your own to be able to, once the information is received, make that decision. Um, so yeah, incompetency or laziness drove me nuts.
John Berry: I think general MacArthur said every good officer is just a little bit lazy. And what he meant by that was the tendency to delegate. But that’s not what we’re talking about here. We are talking about the lazy officer who doesn’t want to develop, develop themselves, develop their team. They’re just, you know, they’re just dirtbags.
David Stott: Yeah, and that’s and that’s probably a good way to put it. But those, those folks that are around you. Um, they’re the ones that are providing that information and, you know, learn from them. Um, take that, take that information, make the best decision. That’s your job as the leader is to make that decision and take that information in and utilize it, get that analysis, take it from raw data, turn it into usable information.
John Berry: Awesome. Well, thanks so much.
David Stott: Yeah. Thank you for having me.
John Berry: for coming on the Veteran Led podcast. Uh, it’s great to have a fellow veteran, uh, a business owner, an entrepreneur and someone who has just started the journey. And this is something different than probably what you’ve heard from some of our past guest episodes. This is someone who says, hey, I’m going to give this a shot. And the lessons you’re bringing are invaluable because the older guys like me that have been doing this for a while, right? We forget how hard it is in the beginning.
David Stott: Yeah, and it really has been a challenge. But it’s also been very rewarding. Just like when you’re starting out in the military and those challenges that you faced, um, and as you overcome them and as you continue to progress and you can look back to see where you’ve come from, it is rewarding.
John Berry: Thank you for joining us today on Veteran Led, where we pursue our mission of promoting veteran leadership in business, strengthening the veteran community, and getting veterans all of the benefits that they earn. If you know a leader who should be on the Veteran Led podcast, report to our online community by searching @veteranled on your favorite social channels and posting in the comments, we want to hear how your military challenges prepared you to lead your industry or community, and we will let the world know. And of course, hit subscribe and join me next time on Veteran Led.
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