In this episode of Veteran Led, John Berry sits down with Reggie Ordonez, Marine Corps Veteran and founder of Forward Brands, to discuss the power of clarity in branding and leadership. Reggie shares his philosophy on why “clarity sells,” how simplicity can drive success, and the importance of truly understanding your audience.
Drawing from his experiences as a Marine and a branding expert, Reggie reveals how to identify core customer needs, craft messages that resonate, and align your personal and professional goals for lasting impact. Whether you’re building a business, refining your brand, or leading a team, this episode is packed with actionable insights.
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Learn more about Forward Brands
Learn more about Warrior Rising
It should always start with the audience. It should always start with who you do it for and knowing your customer every single time. And you got to understand who else is on the market, who else is out there trying to solve this problem.
Welcome to Veteran Led. Today’s guest is Reggie Ordonez, the founder of Forward Brands. Reggie is also an executive advisor for Warrior Rising. He is a President George W. Bush scholar for the Stand-2 Veteran Leadership Program, a former Bunker Labs Chief Operating Officer, a former Bunker Labs Chief Marketing Officer, and has served over 12 years in the Marine Corps with two tours in Iraq. Welcome to the show, Reggie.
Well, Reggie, I got to know you through Bunker Labs, and one of the things that impressed me about you was that we had a facilitator who wasn’t that great, and you stepped in, and you were giving amazing advice. You were connecting with us. And look, these are eight and nine-figure businesses, and you’re jumping in right away and telling us, you’re wrong and you need to fix this. And I just loved your guts coming out and telling us from the guy that hasn’t been in the group comes in and just says, this is how it is and let me help you fix it. So, I want to get to one of my favorite sayings you have, which is clarity sells.
Yeah, John. First and foremost, it’s most definitely something that I believe is a staple in all things, not just messaging. Clarity does sell. And if you go back to that time in that facilitation room, that’s really what we were trying to get to, is clarity. Clarity in thinking, clarity in strategy, clarity in all things, and simplifying complexities. Sometimes we got to get beyond ourselves and understand truly what’s the most simple way to do this. Simplicity doesn’t mean that there’s no depth to it. There’s plenty of depth when you can simplify things. But very specifically, clarity does sell. You’re messaging very specifically, knowing your audience, knowing who you’re talking to, knowing what they’re struggling with, and knowing how you can help them, and breaking that down in a way that is so clean and so clear that it resonates with the audience that you’re selling to. At the end of the day, every single one of us is a founder or a business owner, CEO, however you identify yourself. For one reason, and that is to live a better life, to create wealth and to create meaningful jobs, benefits, salaries, you name it.
But I think what’s important here is if you don’t have revenue, that’s not possible. So, there’s a lot of bad marketing, there’s a lot of bad messages that confuse people, and it’s not going sell. And so, if you can’t sell, then you don’t have all those benefits of being a business owner.
And I think great branding and great marketing pre-sells that service or product. And what I have found is, simplicity is difficult. Yeah, it’s simple when you get there. But I was an English major in college. I’m a lawyer, so I’m a wordsmith. And to really get concise, it’s not easy. And it takes work, and you have to do the work. And what I found is that, especially in my industry, people that try to be clever and cute miss the mark. Clear and concise beats clever and cute every day of the week. And I think great communicators can simplify. So, when you take those messages and someone comes to you and says, Reggie, I got this great idea, and they’re telling you about 10 minutes later, you’re like, I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. What is your product or what is your service? How do you start to guide them into simplifying their message?
Great question. Really, number one is like, well, tell me about who this is for. Tell me about the person that would buy this. What is it that they’re struggling with? Why are they going to come to you? What is it that you’re offering? I’ll let them start to talk through that. And that helps them get out of being in the business, more working on the business at that point. I really try to break it down in some steps. One, I got to know the problem that you’re solving. I got to know who you’re solving it for. Then I got to understand the existing solutions that are out there in the world, in the market, that people are going to, to alleviate this problem that they have. If you’re the same as everybody else, then what’s the differentiation between you and someone else? I’ll try to pull that out of people and say, well, is that price? Because if it’s price and you’re cheaper, then that’s not a good place to be. Unless you have great economies of scale, and you can rip out the volume in ways other people can’t. But that’s usually…
Yeah, if you’re a Walmart. If you’re Walmart or Amazon, price is great, but you’re probably not, and you’re going to lose.
That’s right. It’s usually not the case. We have to start to really drill into who this is for and what exists out there. I could put that in a competitive grid matrix. There’s different things that I’m looking for. Now we’re starting to get into some positioning, like Mercedes or Lexus, Toyota, Mercedes or something else. What’s the value you provide? Are you credible to provide that value? Because if you don’t have any of those things, you’re automatically starting to confuse your customer because they’re starting to look for a through line in the message, and it’s got to make sense. If it doesn’t make sense, they’re going to check out. If you’re selling me a Rolex for $9.99. That doesn’t make sense. So, they’re going to start to question. So, the messaging and the way you position yourself is super important. But that’s usually where I got to spend a lot of time before I can even get to the messaging. Because if we don’t have that right, it doesn’t matter what message that I create, it’s not going to work. I spend a lot of time on the front-end with clients making sure that we have that down pat.
And once we have that, we’re off to the races.
So, to recap, positioning has to happen before the messaging.
I believe that good brands know their position in the market. They know their value. They know who they do business for, and they know their skill sets, and they know that they are uniquely positioned to solve a problem in a way that might be different than somebody else. A lot of my clients, a lot are solopreneurs, service-based businesses. Sometimes it’s like, well, Reggie, that’s difficult whenever there’s so many copywriters out there. How do I differentiate myself from others? It’s like, well, let’s talk about you. Let’s talk about your experiences. Let’s talk about what you’ve done. Let’s position yourself to be credible and trustworthy. We got to get you in front of people showing them your value. So, it just takes some time and some years, and it works.
How do you pull that out of the reluctant business owner? There are business owners who are, and believe me, the legal, oh, my gosh, the legal profession, oh, we shouldn’t have to advertise. This is a profession. This is a practice. It’s not a business. That’s all b******. But it’s what they want to tell themselves because they’re afraid. They’re afraid someone might make fun of them, or they’re afraid that someone might see them as less than professional if they do it wrong. But we all need to get our message out there. My question to you is, how do you deal with that reluctant… Obviously, if they’re coming to you, they know they got a brand problem, or they want to make it better. They know that Reggie is going to make my brand even better. But you get someone like me, look, I’m not laid on the table. Reggie, here’s what I got. But I know that most people aren’t like me. They’re going to say, well, Reggie, I don’t want to do that. That might be a little bit too much or too embarrassing. How do you deal with the people who are, I want to say, afraid of their authentic brand?
Usually It comes down to, I got to… Sometimes I put on the coach hat, and it’s like, I got to help you believe in yourself a little bit. So, let’s look at what you’ve done and let’s give you some positive affirmations. You’ve made sales, you’ve done this, you have happy clients, you have people that are willing to give you testimonials. So, you got to get past yourself to actually take this where you want to go. And you have to be comfortable being able to position yourself as an expert in your craft. You have to be comfortable doing that. And if you’re not comfortable doing that, then that’s not really a branding or a business issue, that’s a you issue. And you got to believe in yourself and what you’re offering. If you’re not confident in it, no one’s going to be confident in it. So, you do have to pull that out. Sometimes there are founders. In our profession, there’s people that are too humble. I don’t believe humility is a bad thing, but you do have to get out there and you do have to put yourself in in front of people, and you have to be confident in what you’re saying.
No one’s going to buy. If you’re not busy, maybe you’ll… As you as a lawyer, I’m coming to you to win. If you don’t believe you can win, then I’m not going to go with you. If you’re not confident, then it’s like, this gentleman’s life, my life is in your hands right now. If you can’t do this for me, I’m going to go find somebody else. It’s no different than any time anyone’s giving you a transaction of value with their dollars that they’ve earned. Can you get this done for me or can you not? And are you confident?
That’s great. And for us, especially as lawyers in the contingency space, like our Veterans disability and personal injury, we don’t get paid unless we win. And so, you’re absolutely right. People are hiring us to win. And where I really screwed this up early on is I thought they wanted a fighter. I thought the message should be about fighting. But I found out that most people don’t want to fight. They want to win. And that was some simple messaging. But for most people, it’s like, wait, I’ve been in a horrible car accident. I’ve got a ton of medical bills. I can’t work for six months. I just want a win here. I just want my family to be taken care of. I just want to get paid. Or Veterans that are denied their disability benefits, they don’t want to have to fight with the VA for another two years. All they want to do is get paid. That was a messaging lesson I learned early on, but it took me several years to learn it, which was people don’t necessarily want to fight. They want to win. If you are providing the service, you would better believe you can win.
Because if you have imposter syndrome, you’re probably an imposter. You probably haven’t done the thing. But if you have done the thing, then you got to step up. I think this is where the military has helped us quite a bit, where you sound off. You sound off proud, you step up, you snap to attention. When it’s your mission, it’s your mission and you own it. I’m sure as a non-commissioned officer, you’ve had to brief the troops. You have to brief them with confidence. You have to come in there with a solid plan, and you have to show the troops that you’re there to win, and you’re going to maintain those high standards. And we just brought up Mercedes. I love their slogan, Excellence or nothing.
That’s right. That’s a good one.
Tell me a little bit about when you’re looking at tagline, slogans, simplifying that message, how do you go about it? Because I know we can simplify and use Venn diagrams and all these great things to show how we’re different. But how do you tie it into a really concise package for the consumer?
I usually do this. This is my process. I build a value proposition statement first, and then from that, I look at ways where that can live in different areas, where I could still get that same impact from that statement, but in a one-liner. Really, what I’m wanting that one-liner to do is resonate with the audience to where they can get what we do. But it’s not about me, it’s about what I can do for them. Good companies, they have your Apples. Think different differently, right there. Differently versus different. They’re already being rebels. Differently is not really a word, different is. It was in alignment with the brand. However, I’ll just go here. Most entrepreneurs that I’m working with are not Apple. I got to be able to help them articulate what they do, but it’s got to resonate with who they do it for. I need to get the customer imagining using their service or their product. I can’t get there unless I really have a good understanding of the psychology of the customer. I think to simplify is it’s always benefits over features. They got to see the benefit. So, comes with four AA batteries, that’s a feature. Ready to play with right outside the box, that’s a benefit.
Is that a one-liner? No. But it’s definitely ways that I’m going to articulate the copy and what I’m selling. It’s really important that people see the benefit and that they can articulate it with themselves using it.
How do you get into the psychology of the consumer? Do you simply put yourself in the consumer’s shoes? Do you do focus groups, research? Or how do you know the psychology of the consumer? How do you know what the consumer is thinking?
I think it’s always going to start with a customer discovery interview. It has to be a customer discovery interview. Here’s the thing. We ask really bad questions whenever we start doing those interviews. We’re looking for facts, and we’re going to create a hypothesis, and we’re going to make sure that the facts are lining up with what we believe to be true. Everything is a science experiment. When we’re talking about psychology specifically, I’m going to ask questions like, tell me about a time when you struggled with A, B, or C. It’s all in lieu of what I’m offering, but I want to know if the problem is validated. Because if I don’t build a product or a service on a problem that’s worth solving or a problem that’s not really a problem, which happens a lot, I assume it’s a problem, but it’s not a problem. We craft something, we build something, and it was never a problem to begin with. We just thought was. So, the customer discovery interview is super important. Whenever we’re doing that, we have to listen, and we have to listen specifically for the struggles that people have. And been doing it a little bit to understand it’s usually around time.
It’s usually around money. It’s usually around, I just want to get this off my chest because I want to go focus on these other things. I’m working in my business too much. I need to get on my business. I don’t have time to do this. I learned that those are really big things that people look for. I could keep going off this. There’s social proof. There’s people that want to feel belonging. They want to feel camaraderie. They have fears. They have doubts. They have anxiety over certain things. They want to keep up with the Joneses, their status. There’s these unforeseen things that we’re ingrained with since the beginning of time. So, I could speak to those 6-8 things, and usually I could find a product or a service where we’re going to speak to one of those. And it’s interesting how that works.
And are you looking for the problem to address the problem on the face or the problem beneath it? So, for example, someone who is going to buy a used car. In forward-facing, what they want to do is they want to get a good price. That’s what they’re telling you. I want to get a good price. But what they really want is to not get ripped off. So, when you do that, are you looking for, I think, the first answer out of their mouth to solve the, you want to make sure they get a good price, or are you trying to solve for the problem that they don’t want to get ripped off? Or does it matter?
It’s the one beneath. It’s always the one beneath. So, this is an example, just working with founders. Usually, I know that founders need more time, founders need more revenue, and they’re coming to me to help them with both. And those are usually the underlying issues. Or maybe not even, because I could keep going with deeper layers. The deeper layers of that is they want the freedom that they initially thought they would have when they decided to start their own business. There’s a lot of undertones to those things. It’s on me to be… It’s not because I’m being manipulative. It’s on me to help them with what it is they’re really trying to achieve. That is more time, more freedom, more sales, to hire more people, to do the things they don’t want to do anymore.
And you know what? Sometimes that first answer is complete b******. Like freedom. I want the freedom. And then what happens? That entrepreneur or that business owner starts making money. They start doing really well. They don’t need to work as much, but they’re getting that validation from the business. So, they could work 20 hours a week, but they want to be number one in their industry. So, they continue to work 70, 80 hours a week, and they take away from their time from their family. And I think that’s fine as long as you’re being honest with yourself about it. But I think too often we lie to ourselves. We get so addicted to the win, right? And it’s like you get to that next level, and there’s the false summit. You think, okay, once we are an eight-figure company, once we’re a $10 million company, I’m going to be happy, we’re going to slow down, everything’s going to be great, spend more time with the family. But then you get there, and then realize, oh, no, no, no, it’s the next one and the next one. And so, I think a lot of times we will tell ourselves and we’ll tell our coaches, oh, no, I just I want the freedom.
I want the freedom of time. I want to have more time to spend with the family. But then when you get that time back, how are you really spending that time, you’re growing the business. And I think that’s also a very difficult conversation to have. But I suppose it’s not much different than trying to figure out what our consumers are really asking for or what problem we’re really trying to solve. Because if you say, well, John, you’re trying to solve the free time problem. Well, that’s what I’m telling myself, but it’s not true. I have the time. I could have the time, but I want excellence. And it’s that addiction to success, to winning that I think maybe makes me a liar. That’s not true. I don’t want the freedom because I’m not taking it. My actions don’t prove that out.
Yeah. There’s something a gentleman named Eugene Schwartz, one of the best copywriters of all time, said. He said that everybody wants a private desire of a mass want. Sometimes when we’re doing this, you can see it play out. That example you just gave, when we’re talking about persuasion and how people make things, it’s like, okay, well, maybe their benefit wasn’t hiring me so they could hire more people and have more time. But it goes back to some of this stuff. It’s like, okay, so it goes back to the social status piece. They want to be at the top of the industry. They want to be known as the juggernaut and whatever it is, and they want the brand to prove it. So, it always comes back to these innate desires, and it’s very interesting.
So, it’s interesting that you work on both of those levels. You’re working on not only the desires of the consumer that the founder or the CEO is trying to reach, but then you’re also working with the needs and desires of the founder and trying to get those aligned as well. So, that’s got to be a mess at times.
It can be very much. I think that everybody loves their business, and nobody wants to hear that their baby is ugly whenever it comes down to this. Sometimes it is a matter of like, hey, we’re not ready to work together because we’re not lock and step. And that’s not my way or the highway, but sometimes it is very much like, if you can’t see this, I don’t see how this is going to help your message. And I would rather not take your money because I’m putting my credibility out there as well if I’m working on this. And that’s a big deal to me.
Yeah, that’s a great point. Your baby’s ugly. Your messaging is ugly. Your marketing is broken, your branding sucks. We’re going to fix this. And for some people, they take that very personally. For me, this is just a calculation. It’s about data points, and it’s about at the end of the day, I’m here to build a bigger future for my team members. If they join Berry Law, I want to make sure that I can make sure that I can pay them more money every year, that I can provide them with all the benefits that they want, that I can provide the future that they want. If I can’t do that, then as a leader, I’m failing. So, I need to hear that my baby is ugly. Probably, some of us have the opposite problem, which we may be doing pretty well. And we’re going, Reggie, this baby’s ugly. This is terrible. Our branding sucks. Everything sucks. We’re just not doing that well. And then you see that they’re doing pretty well in the market. How do you handle clients like that?
Hey, give yourself some grace. You’re not doing that bad. Pat yourself on the back. And that’s something that every founder… Not every founder but let me rephrase that. The go-getters, the high achievers, that’s what we find. And we got to take the time to enjoy the view from the apex from time to time before you go back down into the valley and climb that next apex. So, that’s something that we always have to remind ourselves of. We could be so forward-looking sometimes that we don’t rest in the victories that we’ve had. It’s never good enough. Our team’s always like, okay, next thing. That’s good. Rest in the victories. But give yourself a little bit of grace. I will tell you that it is actually… I love working with organizations that are always looking to grow and improve. And sometimes it’s like, hey, this isn’t that bad. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let’s just see what we’re fine-tuning, and maybe the metrics that you’re using to define success aren’t the right ones. So, let’s just take a look.
That brings up a great point. How do you test the branding to determine whether it’s working? You brought up metrics. For me, it’s dollars, right? We’re making more sales, but is that how you’re measuring as well? How do you know whether the branding message is working? Is it measured in sales?
Yes, and there’s a few things, but if it’s not getting sales, we got to ask ourselves, why? So, is it a copy problem? Is it a messaging refinement that we need? Is it a brand position problem? Are we going after the right audience? Where’s the breakdown? When things flow, we can usually pinpoint where the issue is. Well, we’re getting leads, so it’s not necessarily that part of it, but the leads aren’t converting to sales. So, are we generating the right leads, or can we qualify these as, what do they call marketing qualified leads, or are we going after the wrong audience? And if that’s the case, and it’s very much a messaging problem, and it’s very much an audience problem, so we have to tweak that and go from there. I’m not going to be able to sell Ferrari’s to people that aren’t in the market for those things. We have to understand that piece. I could usually just follow the pipeline, follow the patterns, and see and try to pinpoint where it is, just like a mechanic working on a car. It’s like, well, it’s not a fuel problem. So, we’re approaching it from that angle.
I love the Ferrari example. I think it was Lamborghini who said, they said, well, why don’t you do television commercials? And he said, well, people who drive Lamborghini’s don’t watch television, or our customers don’t watch television. I thought that was just brilliant. But I think it’s a great point because you have to go where your customers are. And if they don’t watch television and you’re spending a bunch of money on TV commercials or OTT or whatever, if they’re not there, you’re wasting your money. And so how do you know? How do you know where your customers are going to be?
That’s right. You’re going to do that by knowing them. I know that sounds super simple, but it’s like fishing. 10% of the fish or 100% of the fish or in 10% of the lake, they say. Where does your audience hang out? When I know them, it’s like, what expos are they going to? What seminars are they checking out? What do they do with their spare time? How do they make purchasing decisions? What are they more conscious of whenever they’re about to make a sale or make a deal with someone? What is it that they’re looking for? And then overall, what is it that they’re trying to achieve? What is the job that they want to accomplish? If I understand the job that they want to accomplish, what they’re struggling with and where they’re trying to get, that’s a good thing. I could start to really validate and understand who they are, and then I could figure out where they are. Where do they hang out? An example, that Ferrari example is really great. They’re not watching TV, so let’s not put ads on the TV. It’s just how it works sometimes.
You’ve just talked about what a great brand strategist does, which is figure out where the fish are. How do you know when you have a bad brand strategist? What are the red flags?
Someone that just says yes to everything. We’re just going to do whatever you want. At the end of the day, I just want to make a sale, and I’m just going to do whatever it is you want to do. If they don’t push back a little bit, I’m going to pay attention to that and be like, hey, you should have someone that’s going to push back a little bit and challenge you on some things. Because if you’re the expert, then you don’t need me. But if they’re just going to go with it, one, they want the revenue, but they should push back. Two, it should always start with the audience. It should always start with the audience. It should always start with who you do it for and knowing your customer, every single time. You got to understand who else is on the market, who else is out there trying to solve this problem that you’re trying to solve. Because at its core essence, a brand isn’t just colors and logos. We’re going to get there with that because we’re going to try to make our people feel a certain way. We want them to resonate with our brand in a way.
But if it’s a luxury, if it’s a luxurious brand, then we want that to scream luxury. The way we talk, the way we do things. But if they’re not really focused on your customer, then I would ask more questions.
Absolutely. And I think when we talk about focusing on the customer, it’s also really operationalizing that brand. Brand isn’t just your marketing and your branding or what’s on your billboards or TV commercials. Brand is who you hire, who you fire, how you run your sales team, how you deliver your product, how you run logistics. It’s the entire organization. I think sometimes we forget that, that the brand is in everything we do. And if our brand is excellence or nothing, then we have to be excellent at everything, which means we can’t tolerate low performers, we can’t tolerate a substandard product or performance, and we have to continually seek improvement and seek feedback.
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s another red flag, too. Brand drives everything. If brand isn’t driving everything, and if they don’t come to the table with that in mind, I would probably look for somebody else. Because as an organization, sometimes we have our brand strategy, and we I think of that as external facing. Then we have our one-year plan or our three-year strategy as a founder or as a CEO, and we’re moving towards that strategic focus. But they have the brand on an island on itself. They’re two separate things, and I would tell you that it’s one. I think that one company that I really like is Coca-Cola. They had a brand… It was I want to be within arm’s distance of a Coca-Cola wherever I am in the world. I want to be able to access a Coke and put a Coke in my hand wherever I am in the world. That was what they wanted. So, of course, that’s going to drive operations. Of course, that’s going to drive everything they do all the way to the shape of the bottle. The shape of the bottle is to fit in your hand. It’s just a really awesome company.
That’s one I really admire.
We’re going to now shift to leadership. Obviously, as a Marine Corps non-commissioned officer, I’d love to hear your perspectives, whether it’s in the Marine Corps or in the civilian sector. But three examples of great leadership and three examples of horrible leadership. Let’s start with the good.
I believe a great leader listens to their people. They take input. They see the problem amongst different perspectives. But at the end of the day, they’re going to make the decision, and they own that decision. At the end of the day, it’s theirs to make. They’re going to listen, and they know when it’s time to go. They do it in such a way. Well, that’ll lead me right into number two. They’re confident. Great leaders are confident and they’re competent. They’re not delegating the responsibility. They have input for the responsibility, and they rely on their teams to do good things, but they are not delegating responsibility. At the end of the day, they know they own it. I think that’s a really important thing.
Number three, is they’re always learning. We’re always exploring and getting uncomfortable and going beyond what we know to get better. Every single time we’re breaking through our bubble, that’s discomforting because we’re not quite sure and we don’t know what’s beyond that next level, but we’re always pushing it. The leaders that I’ve been under that I’ve learned from had those three things, and I really appreciate the hell out of every single one of them for it. They were great.
Absolutely. Now, the bad.
The bad. Insecure, number one. Always worried that somebody’s out to get them. Always worried that they have to be the one in charge, that delegating the play is somehow discrediting them and their achievement. That’s so far from the truth, but I’ve seen that play out with some bad leaders before. The second one, I’d say, is close-minded. They’re set in their ways. They’re not willing to take input, and they believe it’s their way or the highway. And what you get is an authoritarian that isn’t empowering people. And then the third, I think the third one. Let me think here, John. I’d almost say they’re not self-aware. They believe that what they’re doing at any given time of the day is the best thing. They’re just not really aware of what their team is struggling with, and they’re not aware of how they’re being a hindrance to the team.
Yeah, that’s probably the toughest one, right? Because sometimes we get that tunnel vision, especially if we’ve got a big mission or we’re coming up against a deadline in our business, and we think it’s the end of the world, and we can just lose all self-awareness. And I certainly have been there. Well, Reggie, I want to thank you for sharing your wisdom on Veteran Led. Where can people learn more about forward brands or learn more about Reggie Ordonez?
You can go to ForwardBrands.us. Check us out. The website is there for you. The number one place to follow me and hang out is on LinkedIn. I’m active on LinkedIn, Reggie Ordonez. Look me up. The beard is the same on the profile picture. But, John, I really appreciate the time today.
Well, thank you so much for the education, the lesson. That’s one thing I want to do here at Veteran Led is get Veterans to share their wisdom with other Veterans. I believe that Veterans are our most valuable resource. We know how to execute, we know how to plan, and we know how to lead, and you’ve done all of those and done those extremely well. So, thank you again so much for your time today, Reggie.
I appreciate it, John. It’s been a pleasure.
Thank you for joining us today on Veteran Led, where we pursue our mission of promoting Veteran leadership in business, strengthening the Veteran community, and getting Veterans all of the benefits that they earned. If you know a leader who should be on the Veteran Led podcast, report to our online community by searching @VeteranLed on your favorite social channels and posting in the comments. We want to hear how your military challenges prepared you to lead your industry or community, and we will let the world know. And of course, hit subscribe and join me next time on Veteran Led.
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